To wonder if you are against private schools…

[Unsrr]

Why is this? As in against their existence?

I was brought up in a reasonably poor area and my education was not good. I sometimes went to the nearest private school for swimming lessons and remember being in awe of it. We have one dc now age 7 and can’t afford private but there is maybe a chance we could for secondary. I wouldn’t give it a second thought if we could make it work.

I have never felt private schools should disappear because surely that’s what we should be aspiring to? An education that is excellent (yes I know not all private schools are good and lots of state schools are better), isn’t that what we should aim for?

I feel sad that this country has now made it harder to access this education. What is the reason people are against private schools existing at all? I don’t think it can be jealousy, I think many people are genuinely opposed to it from an ideological perspective and I can’t understand it at all. Just interested really as there’s been so much talk about schools recently.

They are morally wrong.

Children should all have the same opportunities, outside their parents wealth.

I'll start by saying state schools generally are vastly under funded and those who allowed this should be bloody ashamed of themselves
Private schools unfortunately are routes for dumb rich kids to get an excellent education, far more qualifications than they would achieve alone, and rubbing shoulders with people they'll use latterly in jobs ... hence the numbers of clowns have in the Tory party etc. Of course this is a huge generalisation and I'm sure there are loads of kids who have made
A success of themselves and brought good to the world from both public and private

I loathe the entitlement attitude eg at university 'what school are you from' then looked down at if it's a state school - even if are intellectually better
Private gets you through your exams, state unfortunately just isn't good enough to help all those clever people achieve better (obviously not always!) and often not so clever / supported at home, leave with insufficient motivation or qualifications .... again a huge generalisation but there's truth in it.
The whole thing needs a complete overhaul

It's more than than the education in my opinion. It's about learning life skills.

It was quite clear to work out in the first weeks of university which students had been to private school as some of them were more than hopeless.

This.

Also academies are effectively state schools owned by businesses. I feel like the gap between rich and poor is being made wider and wider. The aspirational generation are being priced out of everything.

Yes and a lot of people are against grammar schools too. I am. In theory they're a brilliant idea if they took the truly cleverest children rather than the ones with sharp elbowed parents and the most money for tutoring.

Although, grammar schools aside, you will always have the issue of people buying their way into catchments for the best state schools. There's not much you can do about that but it's not a reason for accepting all the inequalities of private and grammar schools.

I’m against their existence in principle but I privately educate my child. Yes that makes me a massive hypocrite and I will take that on the chin.

The standard of secondary education around me is very poor and I am lucky enough to be able to afford it which I recognise makes me very privileged.

I am not prepared to sacrifice my child’s standard of education for an ideological principle. That’s the bottom line for a lot of parents. It’s shit and it embeds privilege and division but it takes a brave and very ideologically determined person to say they will put a general notion of the greater good above their child’s future.

I realise it isn’t as black and white a choice as this and in some areas the state secondary options are on a par with or better than the private sector and in other areas I would happily have sent her to a state secondary. And, let’s be honest, there are ways parents can game the state system too, through catchment gerrymandering etc.

If state education standards were higher across the board private education wouldn’t be necessary. But as long as the state system remains as under resourced as it currently is parents like me who can pay will continue to pay.

Having worked in an industry where there are many private school alumni it sickened me to hear senior people say things like ‘oh Robert, you went to Westminster eh? Fancy a lunch to discuss our contacts’ to my junior peers. It was an old boys club where those privately educated were fast tracked to the top.

Thankfully that’s slowing now and the industry places a lot more effort on diversity - ie my company don’t ask for any specific qualifications or where they were educated.

@Comedycook why are you against them?

This
Obviously

There is no equality in education even in the state sector. House prices in grammar school areas are much more expensive. Children with educated parents who can help with homework will do better than those whose parents don’t speak English or are uneducated. Children sharing a bedroom with no computer in the home will do less well than children with own bedroom and a desk and quiet place to work. Children in violent households or those with chaotic parents will do worse than those with calm household etc. children whose parents can afford tutors or books will do better than those who parents can’t etc. it is impossible to make education equal for all as every child’s circumstances are different. Attacking private schools where most kids are on an equal footing with each other is silly as they are probably some of the most equal classrooms in the country. The aim should be to support struggling families and make all state schools up to a minimum standard.

Why not exactly?

I am not against them as such. I am all in favour of choice.

I don't think abolishing private schools will magically make state schools better.

I think there are issues within the state school system that makes them less effective.

On the flip side it is unfair that only the children of parents with a certain level of disposable income can access the best education.

I don't know what the solution is.

This is the argument I most struggle to agree with. Education does not begin and end at the school gate. Parental education, attitude, interest and even contacts significantly outweigh any education provided by the school. Those who care will invest in cultural experiences, reading, extra curricular activities, tutoring, sports and the list goes on. Unless the intention is to swap children into other families for parts of their lives, we will never even this out. I work with low income families and many of these kids are battling against the tide from the day they’re born - it’s horrific the government has no intention to address any of it

When people opt for private, the government just see this as an opportunity to offer less for those that are there, not use the funding in the system across less children. That is a huge part of the issue

But where does it end?
Every child should have the right to decent housing,
Every child should have the right to nutritional food,
Every child should have the right to a good education,
Every child should have the right to decent clothes,
Every child should have the right to swimming lessons,
Every child should have the right to music lessons,
Every child should have the right to a holiday abroad,
etc etc .
People are not the same, and people earn different amounts of money.

Most of all,
Every child should have the right to caring and supportive parents.

I remember when I started working in banking asking a colleague why people asked where I went to school... I thought they were just being nosey. That's what I'm 'against' - private schooling isn't even about 'a better education' that a child still has to work hard to access, it's about unearned equity in the form of contacts and networks.

That said, I'm not 'against' them as such - but I absolutely believe they are luxury business and should be run, taxed and paid for in the same way all luxury businesses should.

My child attends a private school that’s fully funded by the local authority. Not all children attend private schools out of choice, and it doesn’t mean their parents are wealthy to be able to send their child to private school.
For us he spent 5 years in a main stream school that tried their best to support him, but with his verbal dyspraxia and dyslexia the gap between him and his peers was widening with it not being possible to catch them up.
he has been at the private school (into his 3rd year there) and is thriving, with smaller classes and the teachers being able to take the time to explain the curriculum it’s massively benefiting him. We are very lucky, but see people’s argument from both sides.

@InformEducateEntertain yes I get that that is the view of people opposed to it but what does that mean? Morally wrong? It’s providing a good education and without them there will be less excellent education providers as most (not all) state schools are not as good

This! It's not hard to understand.

I agree, but even amongst the state system you have good schools and bad schools, so the children don’t have the same opportunities. Even if private schools didn’t exist and those kids went into the state system, it may make a small difference given it’s only 6% of children who go to private school, but not enough to make it equal. I don’t believe we’ll ever be able to give all children the same opportunities sadly, we’d need to give our society a total overhaul.

You will never get rid of inequality in education, there are too many variables - the most volatile of which is the parent’s attitude towards school/education.

You can invest all the money you want but if parents don’t engage, it will get you nowhere.

Patents will always “buy advantage” where they can, whether it is through buying houses in catchment for the good schools, tutoring, or extensive extracurricular activities. You will never stop that.

I went to a hideous state school - inner city Bristol, one of the worst schools in the country for attendance and attainment (8% GCSE pass rate) - and I wouldn’t wish the experience on anyone.

The fact is that most people who are so vehemently opposed to private schools are lucky enough to have the option of a good State offering, because I don’t believe for a minute that any parent would willingly send their child to an underachieving school.

All schools should be great, but until you fix the parents it will never happen so I don’t begrudge those who have the means/opportunity to send their kids to private. Ultimately we are all just trying to do what’s right by our own individual children.

Not true. I would NEVER send my children to a state school. If they were banned in the UK I would simply educate abroad.

But it is within the state sector. House prices close to outstanding / good schools are higher than those near ‘requires improvement’ schools. Grammars push them property prices up further. Demographics are no broader in certain state schools and may be narrower than in private schools.

Why doesn't everyone do that hey 🙄

They create a two-tier system, in a political world where for more than half of the last century, those with the political power to influence education do not use the system. If you do not use a product, you have little interest in the quality of the product.