To wonder if you are against private schools…

[Unsrr]

Why is this? As in against their existence?

I was brought up in a reasonably poor area and my education was not good. I sometimes went to the nearest private school for swimming lessons and remember being in awe of it. We have one dc now age 7 and can’t afford private but there is maybe a chance we could for secondary. I wouldn’t give it a second thought if we could make it work.

I have never felt private schools should disappear because surely that’s what we should be aspiring to? An education that is excellent (yes I know not all private schools are good and lots of state schools are better), isn’t that what we should aim for?

I feel sad that this country has now made it harder to access this education. What is the reason people are against private schools existing at all? I don’t think it can be jealousy, I think many people are genuinely opposed to it from an ideological perspective and I can’t understand it at all. Just interested really as there’s been so much talk about schools recently.

You are overestimating the power of parents. Schools are CONTROLLED by local governments, even schools with lots of parental donations could not used the find for enrichment lessons, because it is not allowed. Some schools try to hide it, some schools just can’t be bothered.

In an ideal world they wouldn’t exist at all. In countries like Finland, where all schools are free to attend, there is much less inequality. It’s hard to row back on it and go for total abolition now though - I appreciate that.

Academies aren't controlled by local authorities, they report directly to the DfE. They also have the freedom to set their own curriculum.

Yes and they are generally better than the maintained ones. Unfortunately vast majorities are still only have access to maintained schools.

Over 80% of secondaries in England are academies.

The point is not about the differences between schools, but about the attitudes of government. How aspiring it is, not to allow schools to use parental donations to fund extra enrichment programs. It is hopeless!

That’s great to know, thank you!

They can.

Even if I had been given the same private education as my DH I still would not the advantages of being a white, male, from an educated family with generations of connections.

Just saying. It's more than education that equalises, the truth is there is no equaliser to the levels of privilege some have. No matter how good the education is.

I say that as a child of an immigrant that went to a comprehensive in an inner city and then a RG uni. Doing the same degree as my DH.

Not the maintained ones. We don’t have access to academy.

Parental donations can be used for things like school trips, workshops, extra curricular activities in any school. In fact they are only allowed to ask for donations for school trips etc if they happen within school hours and can't force payment for these.

We were told can’t be used to provide extra curricular activities by our local school, the school said it’s because the council doesn’t allow it. So it was a tried and failed act for us, to try to improve school by involvement and donations.

Who pays for school trips then?

Our local parents have donated far more than school trips. So it was pretty disheartening and eventually drove us away. Our parent’s community were donating both monthly and in lump sums. Ideologically, I would prefer not to have to pay a huge fee, just to learn properly.

As a country, whose government is dominated by public school alumni, we should be seeking to close the privilege gap. There are better education models that are more effective in closing the gap and produce better educated young people.

What were they using the money for then? Presumably stuff that benefited the kids?

Happy to pm as don’t want to be identified!

There will always be inequality. If you abolish private schools, then people will move to the best state school catchments - using wealth to do so.

At the moment, we have a strange situation with private/state schools. Loads of rich people tutor their kids into the best state schools and/or buy expensive houses in tight exclusive catchments and then pretend that their kids are not privileged and that those going to private school are evil puppy murderers.

The way I see it is that abolishing private schools won't make a shit of difference to inequality. It will see the sharp elbowed rich people using their wealth in different ways - houses in fantastic catchments, private tutors, expensive extracurriculars etc.

Mega mega gap between fantastic and shit state schools. Nobody seems to be concerned about this. The focus is demonising private schools - many of which are way worse than the best state schools.

The often quoted 6% is actually accurate, when taking into account A levels, around 20%.

Mega mega gap between fantastic and shit state schools.

Not in terms of funding though.

Finland has loads of inequality:

https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/pisa-2022-results-volume-i-and-ii-country-notes_ed6fbcc5-en/finland_6991e849-en.html

& some parents pay Private Tutors for boosting performance on the exams.

Are the private school fees inclusive of school lunches? Sports? Maintenance of buildings, grounds, cleaners? Admin/tech costs etc? Operating costs - utilities, insurances, etc?

Are those same costs included in state school funding per pupil? Do state schools get funding per pupil, then other school operating costs separate funding ?

Curious - Is this chart apples to apples comparison of education funding/cost per pupil???

No of course they all don’t have an outstanding school on their doorstep. I am talking about my own experience with my own children. A large 1000 plus school isn’t great for my daughter either, she would have no doubt been more suited to a smaller school. But 20k a year? That money has gone into their uni pot so they can start their adult life without debt. Many parents can move to a different area into the catchment of better schools, I didn’t grow up in this area and have stalled my future plans to remain in this area due to good schools.

Private school life is reflective of the real world? No it isn’t. Far from it. At your regular comp you’re going to meet people from all social circles, that is not the case at private school. You might get a handful of people on a scholarship from poorer backgrounds but the vast majority are affluent. Most people they meet in life won’t have the income to pay 20k per child per year on school fee’s. It’s a hell of a lot of money.

Her school does 10 GCSE’s as standard, but they all do RE GCSE in year 10. DD did further maths which is why she did 11 GCSE’s in year 11. Most schools do 10 GCSE’s. She is exceptional in that respect but many of her peers got high grades and did well.

I was talking about my own child attending a good state school, not speaking for all state school children. My DD did a lot of work outside of school, largely because a lot of lessons were disrupted due to a few unruly children. That is definitely a challenge in state schools, even the outstanding Ofsted schools and probably why many pay for a tutor.

The ‘meeting people from all walks of life’ schtik rather sticks I in the throat when our experience was ‘meeting people who have grown up in care, are exceedingly traumatised, want to beat your child black and blue and the school stand by as the child is simply expressing their trauma’. Is that the ‘all walks of life’ smug middle class ‘I could afford private school but…’ mean?

There are a heck of a lot of people here who have the golden ticket of a truly excellent state school place who would have their child whipped out to a private school in no time if the only option was the bog standard comp the rest of us have. These people should realise they have the ultimate privilege and keep quiet.