To expect some basic manners from children?

[vickidoodah]

Twice in the last 24 hours kids have been unfriendly and not corrected by their parents.

1. looked after DC (8) class mate all day. Parent arrives to collect them and child is rude to parent then refuses to thank us or return to say goodbye after walking out without saying anything. Parent rolls eyes and says child is tired.
2. meet up with friend and their 2 children. I say hi to them and her DC 9 looks at me and otherwise ignores me. I raise eyebrow to friend who says they need to warm up and will be fine in about 20mins.

AIBU to think the parents are not helping their children by excusing this rude behaviour? All children NT.

@Differentstarts you're not getting one end of.

For what you have experienced growing up, you have all my heart felt sympathy and understanding. I relate very much. I hope in all sincerity that life has worked out well for you and your own family.

Thankyou I appreciate that and yes it has I'm in a much better place now

So the only difference between you and most of the the posters you are sneering at seems to be that you put on an extra performance in front of the person you would like your child to thank, whereas others, knowing that their child will not respond as desired in that situation, feel that having that parent-child discussion away from the flash point, when the child is calmer, is a better approach

No doubt your way makes you feel better, but I cant actually see anything in your performative approach that makes your child look less rude or that is more likely to instill good manners in them.

Well my son has selective mutism and cannot speak in certain situations, he is almost non verbal at school and if he manages to speak, it is barely a whisper.

This is not him being rude or impolite, he physically cannot speak. Of course if we are in a particular situation where a please and a thank you is required, we will say it on his behalf.

I find it unbelievably upsetting that people just think we are either lazy parents or he is just being rude. Quite the opposite, we have gone through so much to even get him to whisper at school.

He is exceptionally well behaved and wish others could hear his beautiful voice that we hear at home.

Agree. Does this poster think that most of us who have very shy children don’t encourage them to say thank you etc.? And actually insisting a child says something like sorry or thank you etc doesn’t teach them to say it. You model it, explain why we do it etc etc. I cannot force my little girl to say it but I encourage her to. She still often won’t if it’s a stranger and if people think that’s rude then so be it. She can say it perfectly well at home with her family and friends so I really don’t think it’s important that a random stranger might judge me and think of her as rude. Don’t be so quick to judge or label it as ‘excuses’.

There are so many reasons why it can be difficult/goes wrong from time to time.

Things that occur to me;

1. Neurodiverse/unsocialised/anxious/antisocial parents unable or unwilling to teach their children or expose them to situations that expect interaction.
2. Tiredness and irritability - with the being cross at being collected, that can be simply because he didn't want to go home, could be being an entitled little git, could be at the brink of overwhelm.
3. Paralysis - not knowing what to say or not to say out of fear and the knowledge that whatever you do, you're probably going to cop it once nobody else can see. Could be a specific 'you didn't say thank you very much for the wonderful meal, Mrs Patterson', could be 'Why did you have to stick your face in and speak?', could be 'why did you stand there like a mute idiot? I should get you carted off to a home', could be an unspecified offence only indicated by a wallop around the back of the head two hours later.
4. Not recognising the person out of the usual environment.
5. Needing glasses and not actually seeing the person clearly enough to recognise them.
6. Years of being told to never, ever talk to strangers. Why is this stranger different just because you know the kid or the parents know one another?
7. Spider sense. This person sets every nerve on edge, whether it's due to a smell, posture, the way their smile never goes above the tip of their nose. Something feels very wrong.
8. Why is this person being nice to me? Nobody's nice to me, I don't deserve it, everybody hates me.
9. Fed up of being treated like a toy to impress other people with.

DD2 is AuDHD. She would happily engage with retail staff, people with dogs and anybody and everybody else if the stars were aligned (which they usually were when she wanted to have something). However, out of those auspicious occasions, such as when we bumped into one of her classmates, she was generally silent. I asked her why afterwards 'I don't like them, I just have to go to school with them'. I could no more make her perform on command than I could get the dog to do the washing up for me. But I was quite appreciative of the fact that when she couldn't be doing with speaking to somebody, she always took the position that it probably wouldn't help to tell them why she didn't want to speak.

People can be so ignorant. Ignore them, and be proud that you know what a lovely boy he is when with people he feels safe and relaxed with. Same here.

Exactly!! I was being ironic….. my daughter is nd and polite but too many people say they can’t teach their child manners because of it. I’m sure there are some who genuinely struggle to be polite however I doubt it’s in the numbers we see

My daughter had selective mutism when she was younger and physically couldn’t speak but I modelled manners and always said please and thank you on her behalf in shops and things. As she’s got older and been more able to speak in certain situations then I would give her the chance to say please/thank you and only step in if I needed to. Both my kids are very polite now. Rudeness really gets my goat. I work in a school and there are definitely children who have never been taught manners.

My child is shy - I wouldn't correct her in front of someone else and embarrass her but we had lots of chats about saying hello back after someone says hello to you. We talked about shyness taking over sometimes but it you can't get a word out then just smile.

At 9 she would have blanked you if you said hello to her. How at 12 she's say hello with a smile.

There can be a lot going on behind the scenes that you don't see.

It’s a shame not many on this thread recognise this and assume that because a child doesn’t say thank you to anyone they meet that a) their parents are useless and don’t teach them manners or b) they are just rude children. (Of course some parents don’t teach their children manners but many of are working hard at it and don’t need judgement from strangers!)

I think most of us can recognise a shy child and tell the difference from a defiant one who does not want to say thank you/please/whatever. In the latter case you can also see whether the parent is distraught and wants to deal with it on the spot/afterwards or doesn't really care "oh, little Johnny, he's cheeky my little man".

Aw thank you, I am so proud of him and it does make me immensely proud that he can be himself around us and other family 🥰

You are absolutely right about the ignorance of others. The verbal ignorance that people can project can hinder any progress we have made and push us back a few steps, I just wish people could be kind 😌

That’s not the message I get from many on this thread: if a child doesn’t say thank you it pretty much means they are rude and have useless parents who haven’t taught them a basic skill - no excuses.

How do you differentiate a shy child from a rude child you’ve never met before? I don’t act distraught if my child doesn’t say thank you…I just wish people wouldn’t judge parents so much and trust that (most) are doing their best to teach their children manners. Like with all skills, this happens at different ages. Just because their 3 year old can say thank you and please on cue doesn’t mean the older child who doesn’t won’t ever say it. Maybe my child can share their toys before another child. Doesn’t necessarily mean the other child never will and I wouldn’t judge their parents like many here seem to as I know it takes some longer than others to master.

@Pumpkinspicehalloween I was thinking about the specific situation the OP was referring to having had a child over for the day. Normally she knows whether the child has manners after spending a day together.. but I admit that I would expect the parent that I was doing the favour to thank me and not necessarily the child who didn't really have a choice.

And these are the type of parents producing the rude entitled ones I'm afraid.excuses, excuses, excuses. There's no hope......

It is.

Recently with Halloween it's the same. All the parents stood at the end of the drives saying to their kids say thank you say thank you. Because if you don't, people judge. Shock horror the next day on the towns Facebook there are posts about how 'a few didn't say thank you' or 'were a bit grabby' or 'over excited with their knocking' FFS! They're kids and they're excited! The rare times we went trick or treating there were no parents shouting say thank you at every bloody door.

Of course I remind my children to say please and thank you when they forget, it just seems so over the top these days because everyone is worried of how other people may perceive them. This thread is an example of that.

We need to stop expecting children to just act like adults. Lower the expectations and relax a bit.

💐💐💛

I am really very strict about manners. They are free. Even with other people's kids too I'm afraid. If I'm asked for something without a please I say "try again" or don't give it until a please is forthcoming. It honestly drives me slightly mad.

No performance. No performative parenting just good old fashioned politeness which doesn’t need to be overthought. Having polite children is not performative and naming it as such is (possible a psycho analytical) excuse for having impolite children and/or not teaching your children to be polite.

I find it strange that teaching my children to be polite is met with accusations of making me feel better and being performative. My feelings are not derived from my children’s behaviour so it doesn’t make me feel better and quid pro quo isn’t performative. Thanks for the excuse though. 😂

No but it’s clear that you fail to see that not all children are like yours. I assume you don’t have children who feel uncomfortable and ‘shy’ when with strangers.

I totally get what you are saying but I think there is a difference between a shy child saying thank you in a shop perhaps and a child who has been over to your house, played with your child that you know and who’s mother doesn’t say anything either. We are talking about the latter here not every instance of a child in every situation.

Absolutely right. But they were perspectives no always about the original point. The original point was about a child that went over to the OPs house, played with her child and knew the OP and her child. I get others have wanted to expand the point to all kinds of children, in all kinds of circumstances for all kinds of situations but that isn’t the original post. So in this specific instance the child should have said thank you. If not, the parent should have said thank you. Other instances may be subjective. These are where the excuses came from - from pointing out in various other instances where a child may not want to (or isn’t able to) say thank you.

i stand by in this instance posted the child and/or parent should have said thank you. Reasons why they couldn’t are only excuses.

You’ve dismissed this numerous times, saying they are all just ‘excuses, excuses excuses’.