Child wants to live with the father she hardly knows so she can go to university a year early

[StarbucksSally]

My nearly 14 year old wants to leave me, her stepfather and her siblings to go and live with her father who isn’t even on her birth certificate so she can go to university a year early.

We were in a reasonably short relationship when I became pregnant. He exerted absolutely no pressure on me but confessed later he had hoped I would terminate. He left when I was about five months pregnant and returned to home.

He has always sent money to me, was open with his family who he takes her to see when they’re in London but essentially only saw her very infrequently.

In spite of this they do get on and seem to have a good relationship.

I am just devastated that she wants to do this. I don’t know what the consequences would be to our relationship if I said no.

I would set aside your worry that it will affect her relationship with her siblings negatively, it may not, staying put might.. it may improve things, you just can't know there and I don't think its a reason to stop her.

I suspect there is a strong element of 'the grass is greener' and I think you stand fuck all chance of explaining this to her, she's at the age where she needs to see for herself, go there, live there, see how it is in reality rather than just a few days here and there during holidays which are very much 'fantasy land'.

The more you dig in and say no and propose reasons it won't work, the more she is likely to dig in and refuse to admit defeat... so I think you have to act like this is a great idea and she's welcome to investigate it.

If it all works out as she has planned, great, I can't see how that could be a problem.

If it DOESN'T work out, you need her to be able to say 'sorry this went tits up and I need to come home' and she can't do that if she feels there will be an element of 'I told you so'...

Oh OP this is so tough! And of course she doesn't know him, not really, so of course you'll worry. If you don't let her go she could become incredibly resentful. I would let her do as she is asking but make it very clear that she can change her mind at any point, and don't let her leave feeling that she has made her bed and has to lie in it. Teens can be stubborn when they're trying to assert independence and if it doesn't go as she hopes she needs to feel she can tell you and come back

How many posters have said, "in her best interests". Who gets to determine what "best interests" are? It's hugely swayed by one's own thoughts and emotions.

I'm sorry OP because this must be very painful for you.

I feel like with teenagers the most productive way is to listen, really listen, to what they say. Why does she want to go? How does she imagine it will be?
Break it down into bite-sized chunks ie. what her room at her Dad's is like, what sort of lifestyle does Dad live? What will her commute look like? Will she feel able to text/call you at any time?

If, theoretically, she did go, will you ensure she knows she is welcome home for weekends and holidays? Or, indeed, to return?

Don't fret over things like her changing her mind and coming home then that being unsettling/missing her place, that would be a natural outcome and extremely good learning for her.

The best way to keep her close is to keep talking and listening, and to allow her to stuff up on some things. Her desire to move may seem to you like a poor choice but maybe it isn't? Maybe she is hankering for the Dad attention she has missed so far and imagines this will make her feel better? It probably won't, she'll probably return dejected by what a crap dad he is but as painful as that may be, perhaps it's what she needs to go through?

How is her friend group? People have been focusing on the family unit but the drama levels for 14 year olds are off the charts. Could she want to restart/reset how she is perceived by her peers? I certainly did. One to check.

Partly because if she was enjoying her time with her school friends, I don’t think a girl who doesn’t have some grand ambitious plan for her life would be so keen to leave school for uni at 14.

I would tell her that before she gave up all her school friends, you would really like her to consider the decision for longer. Statistically, 12-14 is the hardest age for kids to change schools. I also don't think that this is about her future career at all. It sounds like she wants to follow in the footsteps of older relatives and likes the idea of a fun experience living away from home. However, i do think that she's too young and would be limiting her options. I would agree that once she's done her GCSES, she could go there. If she's after a bit more of an adventure/is desperate to grow up, could she part board at school or go off to a summer camp?

Honestly OP all you can do is explain your reservations but ultimately support her. But make it clear she is welcome back at any time if it doesn't work out. I think that's the smartest way to deal with it to preserve your relationship x

Agree completely with this, I have a 13/nearly 14 year old girl and the friendships are both everything and a big source of drama. It feels like we her family are sort of neither here nor there 🙄. So I would certainly be digging into that - the fact that she has no qualms about moving away from current friends means there may be something going on there that is motivating her to want to move.

No mother who left her newborn would be called a decent mum.

Lots of students in Trinity are from the North or the UK. Often people who didn't get into Oxbridge also apply for/get Trinity. So, it would not be unusual to apply with A-levels.

This would be an option for her at 18, he could get to know her during the summers, between now and then.

I have experience of both systems of schooling/ exams. Granted it was some time ago since I completed it but the Leaving cert is much harder and more intense process in my view- 6/7 subjects and have to do either honours or ordinary levels - honours usually required for university . Majority of subjects are exams based, mock exams do not count, very little coursework ( and only in few subjects) count towards grades . So all exams focussed, a lot of pressure to perform on the day.
my relatives who did the UK system had a much more balanced experience in my view, we often shared experiences and work in crossover subjects. They were so glad not to be doing leaving cert and I was jealous of their experience. University experience has been mentioned by others so won’t add to that. We had some students join us from post GCSE and they found it a challenge.
regarding the age , primary school in ROI is 8 years and secondary 5 or 6( if doing Transition year) so realistically the overall age is much the same as the starting age for primary school can be later in ROI, a lot don’t start until 5years in my experience.
if she is keen I’d ensure she is fully aware of the differences and her expectations are balanced and get a good understanding of the points system.
you have my full empathy, this is a difficult time- would she consider spending a summer with her father first in order to see what “ life” is like? If they live anyway rural it could come as a shock if she’s used to cafes, cinemas , entertainment etc all close.

The leaving certificate is very different to GCSEs and A levels. At 14 she would have missed too much to sit the junior Certificate with children her own age. Junior Certificate is 3 year course with the exam normally sat around 15. The Leaving Certificate is a 2 year course normally sat around 17-18 depending on whether the child has done transition year.
In Ireland the Leaving Certificate is comprised of 7 subjects. The core subjects are English, Irish , Maths and a foreign language. Then the students normally pick 3 other subjects of their choice.
each subject has two levels, a higher level and an ordinary level. The equivalent of an A+ at higher level gives you a 100 points and the same at ordinary level gives 60 points. With Maths if you get over 50%(I think) at higher level you gain an extra 25 points.
University acceptance in Ireland is a points based system. The maximum amount of points you can achieve is 625( art portfolio courses and medicine are slightly different) and only 6 subjects are counted towards points.
For university all students apply through a system called the CAO. The students rank their choices 1-10. Based on the points nationally the courses are awarded to the students with the highest points. There is no interview system and also no clearing system.
Leaving Certificate subjects in Ireland are difficult, with many students getting outside one to one classes in some subjects (grinds) especially in higher level Maths.
Many schools do after school study for two hours each day and students would typically do another 2 hours possibly more after that if they are looking to achieve high points.
If you have a google you should be able to see past papers for some of the leaving certificate papers to give your child an idea of what to expect.

Sorry that’s so long but just to give an idea of the school system. If you have any questions please ask.

She needs to stay with you at this young age and do her GCSEs - say you’ll discuss her leaving when she’s 16 and hope that she’ll have built her friendship group by then and have changed her mind.

Some of the replies here are genuinely odd to me.

No, of course you shouldn't send her to live with him. It's not a dilemma, it's out of the question. She's only 14 and your child. You raised her.

This man is her biological father, but basically a stranger to her (and you). What do you really know about him? You haven't properly spent time with him in 14 years and your daughter hasn't either. He abandoned you and the child, just seeing her a few times and paying some money hardly makes him a proper father, did he even pay the full child support you were entitled to? He wasn't a regular part of her life, she hardly knows him. I'm not saying that he's an awful person, but clearly not a proper father figure.

People saying that she doesn't have a good relationship with her siblings and that you should let her go likely don't know many teenagers. It's normal at that age to be annoyed by your siblings and rebel against your parents. She's a teenager! That doesn't mean that she doesn't love her family. The grass is always greener on the other side, many teenagers would probably tell you that they'd love to live with a new, cooler family, but that's not what it's really like. It's very likely that he feels guilty, but has no idea what he is getting himself signed up for and that she had this dream of everything being perfect, when it probably won't be.

I'm not saying that he's horrible or anything, he's probably a nice person, but he's not a father figure and never has been. Of course he deserves a chance, but sending her to live with him is way over the top. They should go on holidays, get to know each other and if she wants to live with him for a year when she's 18 or go to uni there, that's great. But not at age 14, to a biological father she hardly know and away from her siblings.

This would devastate me OP. I have no advice. But I absolutely get the physical wrench you're facing.

The ‘year earlier’ is a red herring; most Irish students will have turned 18 if not 29 by the time they start uni (eight years in primary, usually six in secondary.) It’s not like she is talking about a highly vocational reason to go to school in Ireland, like a ballet school or conservatoire. Would you send her for the Easter break or part of the summer to do a course, eg acting or language?

My Ds Birth father is not on his birth certificate. He left the area when I fell pregnant. He knows about my DS but has never met him or paid a penny....
BUT when my DH wanted to adopt him (25yrs ago) we legally had to provide name and last known address because, if they could find him, we had to have his permission for the Adoption to go through as he still had parental rights.

It still pisses me off now we had to do that and why he should have had parental rights!!

I think that this is probably the answer. Let her go to Ireland for a while in the summer and see how she gets on. Ireland is quite different to the UK and she may find that she doesn't like it or struggles to fit in or that life with her dad just isn't what she expected.

Does he have PR, OP? This is key. If you were unmarried at the time she was born you, as baby's mother, would have had to have granted this as you say he is not named.on birth certificate.

So he doesn't even really have her in the holidays? My ex lives in the same area and dcs go for holidays. Tell her she needs to start going to him for all holidays to see how she gets on, mine have always gone for the whole 6 weeks holidays as well as April and every other Christmas.

My 13 nearly 14 year old hates going for so long now he's older and wants to cut it down to a week every visit. She might find out she doesn't like it after all

I wouldn't be OK sending my 14/15 year old to live with their biological father who isn't even on their birth certificate and with whom they've never spent more than 3 weeks (because given the first point it doesn't sound like he's been consistently present in her life). And I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to tell her (or him).

What I would be doing is facilitating a closer relationship with her father so that you can both make a more informed decision in a couple of years. Sounds like from an education pov it won't be a problem her moving there, so holding off won't damage her ability to start uni a year early.

She's 14 - things get challenging for a few years around this age. She might change her mind, she might not, but if she becomes more determined then facilitating a move in a couple of years in a responsible way won't make you the bad guy. You can show you're taking her seriously without a knee jerk reaction.

I would also try & find out if she's as happy at home as you think, and if not see if you can make changes. If she's not connected with her step father or siblings then that'll only get worse & create a rift as she gets older.

Honestly OP I have a 17 year old and the things she wanted to do when she was 14 were completely nuts compared with where she is now (sensible plans). Hard to do I know, but I would just smile and nod, agree that it all sounds wonderful, sit back and see what actually happens. Do absolutely nothing to facilitate it. I don’t mean be obstructive. My guess is that when she and her dad begin to understand the actual reality of her moving to Ireland, getting started in school, uniforms, books, all the responsibilities of looking after a child full time (for him) starting a whole new life, making new friends (for her) it will all go very quiet. Take the wind out of their sails by taking your emotions out of it. Seriously, a man who has taken very little interest in his daughter to date is unlikely to actually go through with the responsibility of taking on a teenager and all that involves.
But as PP have said the whole thing is probably a symptom of her generally feeling unhappy. This is probably what you should try to focus on subtly. She is trying to get your attention and she has achieved it - maybe you can channel it into something more positive and realistic.

DS started uni at 17 and was able to go out with friends. Not everyone has to oil their social wheels with alcohol!

Nothing to do with drinking alcohol, it’s incredibly socially limiting to go to college at 17 and not be able to hang out in any over 18 settings.
The OP’s DD seems to think it’s common to go to college at 17 which it isn’t.

I think at this stage it’s practically irrelevant the Leaving Cert vs A Levels, Irish University vs. UK University. This girl is still 13 yo, she has never lived in Ireland, she has never spent any amount of time with her Dad, the longest seems to have spent with him is a two week holiday to America.

I think I said already, the OP needs to have a firm word with the girl’s Dad and tell him she lives with her and that is the way it will be until her DD completes her school education. End of. He needs to stop encouraging and enticing her to live with him. By all means, let her visit him in Ireland during holidays but no moving over there. It’s absolutely ridiculous to even consider allowing her DD to move there full time.

And I very much doubt the posters telling the OP to unpick why she doesn’t want her DD to move and telling her to let her go would actually be so blasé about it if it were their own 13 yo.

Legal parenthood and parental responsibility are two different things.