Child wants to live with the father she hardly knows so she can go to university a year early

[StarbucksSally]

My nearly 14 year old wants to leave me, her stepfather and her siblings to go and live with her father who isn’t even on her birth certificate so she can go to university a year early.

We were in a reasonably short relationship when I became pregnant. He exerted absolutely no pressure on me but confessed later he had hoped I would terminate. He left when I was about five months pregnant and returned to home.

He has always sent money to me, was open with his family who he takes her to see when they’re in London but essentially only saw her very infrequently.

In spite of this they do get on and seem to have a good relationship.

I am just devastated that she wants to do this. I don’t know what the consequences would be to our relationship if I said no.

Ongoing from the advice other people have given about the leaving cert. For Junior cert (first 3 years of secondary) you do 9/10 subjects, and then minimum 5 up to 7 for leaving cert.
whereas I believe in the UK you do 3 or 4 for a-levels.
Points are very high for college places, and even on full points you aren't guaranteed your first choice college place, this year there have been lots of students on full points being turned down due to ballot results for the top courses in finance, business and medicine.
Why don't you let her daughter go stay with her father for xmas or summer hols, and see how that fits with her ideas.

Also I've never heard of second nieces.

Another thing to say to her is that we don’t have a ‘college/6th form’ then ‘uni’ system here. There’s no change of schools after the Junior Cert. Students are in the same school from 1st-6th year. It is a different culture to England in lots of ways.

It’s so hard for you. But from her point of view, she may well have a longing to get to know this whole half of her heritage and family she knows little about. I think it would really help her if you acknowledged that, Hard as it is, I would suggest to her that she spends the whole of her Christmas break with them, so she gets a better idea of how it might be. I had a similar set up with my children, and it’s only as an adult that my firstborn has told me of the many ways he was othered, not by me or my Dh , but by dhs family giving better gifts to the “ real” children, by having a different name etc. Looking back, I really wish my ds’s father had made such an offer, and wanted him, it would have made such a positive difference to his self esteem.

UK nationals are currently eligible for "free fees" in Ireland. There is still a €3,000 registration fee per year. There are no official student loans in Ireland, although it's easier for students to get bank loans than it is for other teenagers with no income.

Sounds like a terrible father to me!
He’s not done any parenting!
If a mother had done the same NO ONE would be saying ‘she sounds like a decent mum’

What about if she went for a few weeks of the school holidays this (academic) year? To see how it goes. Could you accompany her a couple of times, maybe stay nearby or with her dad, if you get on, to get more insight into what her life would be like?

It may be that she'd be happy just spending more time with him, rather than living with him permanently.

This. Also, please don't focus on her father hoping you would have a termination. This isn't relevant right now and should never be brought to the attention of your daughter. I am pleased that they have always got on. Things could have been very different as you were not in a long term relationship.
Let her go, with love in your heart; she will resent you otherwise

If you go to school in Scotland then you can have your Uni qualifications at 16 My DD had an unconditional offer for Uni when she was 17 and started Uni at 17 wasn't 18 until January, her last year of High School was a total waste of time so I can see why kids want to start early and do highers etc for a year rather than A levels over 2 years.

How old are her siblings? How long has her step dad been in her life?

Am I right in thinking that your DD wants to move to Ireland to do her senior cycle in secondary school, so that she can study at university in Ireland? Which would mean moving at 15/16? I totally understand why you would have difficulty with this. If she's 14 now, then that would mean she could be moving quite soon. But I wouldn't panic just yet.

First of all, what does her Dad think of this? Does he actually want to put his DD up for potentially six years (two years in school and four years at university)? What's his own situation? Does he have a girlfriend/partner/children? What's his housing situation? Would he have a spare bedroom for her? Has she other family there? You don't have to answer any of these questions here, but I would be considering all of these things.

Also, your DD might have an idealistic notion of moving to a foreign country and living with her Dad. It probably sounds very exciting, but the reality might be very different. I would definitely plan for her to spend a month or so living with him in advance of making the move. Has she actually spent any time in Ireland? In your OP you've mentioned visits in London. She might find that living with her Dad is very different to spending visits/holidays with him. Instead of planning and doing fun holiday things, he might be nagging her to clean her bedroom and do her homework and tidy up after herself etc.

On the other hand, she might find that she likes living with her Dad but really misses home and her friends etc. She might find it hard to settle in at school. The senior cycle is Ireland is very tough, with the pressure to secure enough points to do your chosen course at university. We typically study a minimum of seven subjects for the Leaving Cert, with English, Maths and Irish being compulsory subjects. But your DD would get an exemption for Irish.

Even though you're devastated at the prospect of her moving away to live with her Dad, I wouldn't dismiss it outright. Be open to discussing it. Help her to do up a list of pros and cons. Be very clear that if things don't work out, or she changes her mind, she's welcome to come home anytime. Bring her to Ireland and visit the school in question. After toying with the idea for a while, your DD might well change her mind about the whole thing. But the worst thing you could do would be to make it a forbidden fruit.

Is her father married/living with a partner and does he have any other children?

From what you have said about her relationship with her siblings maybe she feels the outsider. I presume that her step-dad is the father of your other children.

Teenage years are difficult and she may feel that she wants her real father and, if she can have him to herself then all the better.

This is great advice.

I have a 14yo DD too and can't imagine her leaving her friends, who are currently everything to her! I'm surprised friends haven't been mentioned in this thread at all. 15 is a terrible time to move schools because of leaving friends behind at just an age they're crucial.

Tell her no decisions yet because this needs a lot of talking through first. Then talk talk talk.

My DD actually did want to move schools last year. She was having a really rough time. We talked through everything and in the end her friends were more important than her school troubles.

Looking at some of the comments and I agree there's some really helpful information. I don't know if anyone else suggested it, but there are also some UK universities that have partnerships with Irish universities- she could do a year in Ireland as part of her UK degree. That might be a more practical compromise.

I do hope you can give yourself some time to explore your feelings around it all though, it sounds like this news has brought up a lot for you, including feelings from a brutally difficult time. There's probably a lot your daughter is trying to work out too. Best of luck.

He is her parent biologically but has avoided all the main responsibilities of parenting and would have preferred her not to exist. Now she's 14 and growing up and can do her own washing and won't need babysitting in the evenings and at weekends, he's interested in having her live with him. I can understand why the OP is so upset: she has done all the heavy lifting and he's the Disney dad who steps in and offers an escape just at the time when most teenage girls are going through huge physical and emotional changes and need their mother — even if they kick against her.

OP, 14 is a. difficult age and I'm sure it seems to your DD that she can deal with the challenges she's experiencing at home and all the complications of puberty and growing up by running away to this charming stranger. Very likely when she gets there she'll find herself an outsider at school living with a father who's really not that interested in her once the novelty has worn off. My guess would be that she'll soon be wanting to come back to you.

Madness, wanting to go to university a year early. He's reckless to suggest it. Lots of evidence to show that gap year students who've had a year off to work or travel and develop some adult skills and resilience do better when they go to university than young people straight out of school. You keep saying what a decent man he is, but he really doesn't seem to have her best interests at heart.

Your DD is 13 yo. She really is too young to decide that she wants to up sticks and go live with her Dad in Ireland. I suspect she’s probably enjoying the drama of it all and the power trip of telling you she wants to move country and go live with her Dad. Has she friends and hobbies ? Is she not considering that she’d miss these.

I think I’d be having a chat with her Dad and tell him that your DD is not moving to Ireland and to please stop trying to encourage her. She can apply to Irish Universities when the time comes if she wants.

She can try it and come back home again if it doesn’t work out surely? She obviously has a longing to go for whatever reason and apart from the fact you’ll miss her I can’t see why you’d refuse.

Yes he left you whilst pregnant but you also got pregnant during a short relationship so he’s not solely to blame.

1. Sit down with her and go thru your research on education and Uni.
2. Try to find out if it’s really about education
3. Do a pro/con list

Try see how much is education, escape fantasy, start fresh, lifestyle ..

Just say to her, that she, and you need to understand all of the options before making a major leap like this.

will you then get visits, pay any support? Pay for uni?

Uni 4 yrs is a bigger cost, secondary school …

Treat her like a grown up, go thru all the details,

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that comment was crazy!

I'm astonished by all the replies that seem to think that 14 years olds are perfectly capable of rational adult decisions. 'She's her own person', someone said. She's 14. She's under all kind of social and school and friendships influences. She feels grown-up but she's still child and she needs a strong, loving parent to hold her on course. I think back to when I was 14 and kicking against my parents (which is what teens are supposed to do, it's called individuation) and of course if some pleasant man who had fathered me had offered me the chance to go and live with him and stick two fingers up at my mum I would have loved the idea. It would have been a disaster. Good parenting often involves saying no firmly. The parent is the adult, the teen is the teen and the adult is in charge.

@lanthanum

She needs to be very careful that she keeps her options open. If she goes and lives in Ireland, she might lose eligibility for home fees at UK universities

no she won’t - ROI and UK have reciprocal education agreements, she’ll be treated the same as a UK citizen for the purposes of fees no matter how long she lives in Ireland.

she may lose her ability to receive a maintenance (but not a fee) loan

I don’t think it’s a good idea to go to uni early.
Tbh I think lots of people go to uni too young anyway.

She will be around people who are partying and she will be too young to get in but also emotionally young too, which would worry me a bit.

But I would be tempted to let her try it but let her know that she can always come back at any time.
I would try and encourage her not to go early though.

I understand why you feel so sad but try and turn it around that actually he owes you and it’s now his time to step up and help her like you have.

If he’s a decent man, how come he’s not had regular contact with her?

I really empathise with your feelings - something similar happened after DS's dad died and my son wanted to go and live with his birth mum. He was attracted by the idea of being surrounded by people to whom he was biologically related. It was a kick in the teeth for me after raising him as my own for 10 years but I could not stand in his way and I facilitated the move, and when it all went tits up a year later I was there to pick up the pieces and bring him back home.

Obviously a different situation for your DD but if I were you I would try to see this desire for her to spread her wings as a positive thing - she obviously feels secure enough in your love to try this and I do think it could give her opportunities for growth. Children who have moved countries always seem to me to have more confidence and often find it easier to make new friends and build networks.

My concerns would be - is he married now or has a long term partner, or is he very close to sisters/cousins/his mum who would provide a female role model and emotional support to the typical teenage girl, who would understand the ways that girls need to be supported?

I'd also want to make sure that she was running TO something and not AWAY from a situation. EG have there been fallouts with local friends, is there a subject at school she really hates and thinks she could get away from, is there conflict between her and her siblings and/or stepdad?

Could some sessions of family counselling help with this? And maybe individually for her, to make sure she's clear in her own mind the reasons she wants to go and think about the risks versus benefits and how she will cope with any unexpected problems when her mum is so far away.

I knew my mind when I was thirteen. I went to school in Ireland (Wicklow). Lots of children change schools in the UK when they are 12/13 also.

There are a lot of thing for you to unpack here, OP. It's about her heritage, her father, his/her Irish family, your feelings, your history. And then it is about actual schooling and university.

There's nothing wrong with going to another country and following their schooling system. She can come back and visit you in the holidays.

And yes, it might all go tits up as PPs have said, but then you are there for her.