to be a bit surprised at the misogyny described/displayed on mn at times?

[nickytwotimes]

Right, well, first off, I love it here. i especially love it because there are plenty of intelligent, witty posters.
However, I am frequently surprised at threads relating to pornography, exchanging sex for "gifts" and fanjo shaving, etc. Now, I know we've all got different ideas about what is acceptable, but sometimes it's like feminism never happened.

and to me, MrsM. Well said.

Expat re: N Woolf:
"I find her intellectual subtance a rip-off of others and that's why I find her weak there, too."

I'd be genuinely interested to know whom you think she has ripped off - partly bcs I'd be interested in reading them. Is it obvious people or...?

No offense, onebat, but I am not interested in discussing that silly woman anymore. I find her vapid to the core. I truly do.

David said he and Posh were trying for another baby.

Where is she going to put it?

typical feminism, picking holes in who is more feminist than the other

Oh. Ok, expat. Just thought it might be, you know, interesting, to follow up your criticism and see if it holds water.

I don't feel the need to prove my criticisms hold water to anyone, one.

Read the work yourself and come to your own conclusions.

it's just one person's opinion and yours may be totally different. i'm fine with that.

Southeastastra wrote: typical feminism, picking holes in who is more feminist than the other

Or..
typical feminism being so passionate and/or intellectually vigorous and/or freakin' important that it needs to argue things out.

I think, expat, that if you accuse Woolf of being derivative (at best) or plagiarist (at worst), you should be prepared to name the writers that you feel she has ripped off.

hmmm, I do tend to go with southeast on this one

btw I haven't "read the work and come to my own conclusions". Difference is, I haven't claimed to.

Just find it interesting, is all.

Right, DH is home, cooking me dinner, and pouring me some Chablis so I'm off to squeeze his bum.
Night all

Again, onebat, regardless of what you think, I find this person SO irritating I do not wish to argue or even discuss her.

I do not owe you or anyone else any complex justification of my opinion, particularly when you start putting words into my mouth.

I did NOT accuse her of plaigarism, which is a specific and serious allegation which implies someone claimed authorship of specific pieces of someone else's specific piece of work. Nowhere did I state that.

So if you're going to continue to press on about my opinion of her I am going to ignore you.

If that offends you, I don't care because I refuse to be drawn into discussions in which people accuse me of making very serious allegations against someone else on a public forum or of people who don't respect my polite requests to discontinue that part of the discussion.

Again, onebat, regardless of what you think, I find this person SO irritating I do not wish to argue or even discuss her.

I do not owe you or anyone else any complex justification of my opinion, particularly when you start putting words into my mouth.

I did NOT accuse her of plaigarism, which is a specific and serious allegation which implies someone claimed authorship of specific pieces of someone else's specific piece of work. Nowhere did I state that.

So if you're going to continue to press on about my opinion of her I am going to ignore you.

If that offends you, I don't care because I refuse to be drawn into discussions in which people accuse me of making very serious allegations against someone else on a public forum or of people who don't respect my polite requests to discontinue that part of the discussion.

I am off for my dp to grovel further about his recent behaviour, whilst he massages my feet and dare not interrupt Have I got news for you, he is (I think) one of the reasons this thread started....he is a victim of a dreadfully misogynistic upbringing made worse with a drippy mother and sometimes I pay the price for it, on the other hand my m&d both worked and shared housework.
I will check up tomorrow, very good thread!

Why not give him a back, sack and crack, Posie? Get him teh mood .

hee hee, now stop posting or I'll never go!!

Message withdrawn

Interesting how the OP started a discussion on misogyny, which rapidly degenerated into yet another row about whether or not it's OK to have a kind of sex life that not everyone fancies. In my own longtime happy little bubble of porn, swingers, fetishists and so on, I have been a bit protected from the horrible reality I see on MN: of men who belittle their wives for not doing housework properly, who withold money because they are the ones who earned it (never mind that the women are taking care of all the domestic work and the children, work which would cost them a lot if they had to pay employees to do it), men who beat and terrorize their wives because they think they can get away with it... and through it all is a terrible undercurrent of people who don't think that women are really human but see them as support systems for children and machines for domestic work. Throughout every kind of non-porn media the same messages are reinforced again and again: that a woman who works and doesn't devote any time to servicing a man or children is either 'selfish' or horribly unhappy, that 'love' (ie heterosexual monogamy) is the answer to everything, and that no matter how interesting or well-paid or adventurous a woman's life might be, she really wants to give it all up and bake cakes (and if she doesn;t she's mentally ill or wicked). Yes, bad things can happen to women who work in the sex industry, just like bad things can happen to women who work in non-sex-industry jobs, or who marry men who start out charming and turn into vicous controlling maniacs. But societies that prohibit porn, sexual expression or women's freedom to strip off, talk dirty and have sex for money or with lots of different men are not exactly bastions of female freedom, and sometimes the insistence of some people that women who engage in sexual display and sex for sheer hedonism are bad and wrong and to blame for harm befalling other women doesn;t sound that far away from ideas that women should cover themselves from head to foot and never speak to a strange man in case they give him ideas.

Great post@madamez. Don't agree with everything you've said, but some good points. I still think the sex industry is a seedy, exploitative world run mainly by men for the profit and sexual gratification of men, but then again, that's the world, isn't it? It's just symptomatic of a wider problem.

In she blows with her cape and mask - it's madamez!