to be a bit surprised at the misogyny described/displayed on mn at times?

[nickytwotimes]

Right, well, first off, I love it here. i especially love it because there are plenty of intelligent, witty posters.
However, I am frequently surprised at threads relating to pornography, exchanging sex for "gifts" and fanjo shaving, etc. Now, I know we've all got different ideas about what is acceptable, but sometimes it's like feminism never happened.

Aaaaaaaanyways.

expat you are reacting to the woolf hype, rather than the content, I think.

She was offered as an explanation to those who hadn't come across the idea of cultural conditioning iirc.

Hang on, MOTHERS are to blame?
Not fathers? Why not then?
So it's womens fault that MEN don't do their share of domestic stuff?

Did I say that anywhere, WWW? You seem bent on extrapolating all sorts of conclusions for my opinion of Naomi Wolfe? Do you know her or something?

Greer was years before Wolfe came on the scene. Wolfe's just her cheap rip-off.

But hey, I find Wolfe so annoying she's definitely not worth arguing about.

My mother definitely wore the pants in the family. And didn't my father know it and still does!

I learned from the both of them how a partnership works and I feel sorry for a lot of the OPs whose threads I read on here.

what is feminism?

Neither are mine, PP.
I always sigh when women are on here saying their DH never does anything blah blah blah! I just think, well didn't you know that before you married him? My MIL is like that but the girls DH shared with at uni sorted him out.

But I have to go, off to watch movie and drink Cava with dh, will come back tomorrow.

No you didn't say that other feminists were whinging expat but I find attacking her (or anyone's arguments) based on their background rather than intellectual substance a bit suspect tbh.

I think she's saying it's often mothers who are to blame not women i.e wives.

DH's mother would love it if I sat at home ironing his socks except she'd have nothing to moan about then!

Greer has always got on my tits

K, then, I find her intellectual subtance a rip-off of others and that's why I find her weak there, too.

And sorry, but I disagree, I think one's background is an essential component to who they are and how they perceive the world around them.

But like I said, she irritates the shit out of me so I am done arguing about my opinion of her. It is still shit.

It's all very well attacking feminist thinkers, but at least somebody somewhere is thinking about these things - writing and researching and keeping the debate alive - and not just making inane comments about waxing their fanjos coz it's sexy, innit...

When all is said and done I, personally don't want to look like a yeti just to prove I've embraced feminism.

I'm saying mothers not fathers because if the fathers had more to with it I am assuming their sons would do a little fucking ironing!

maybe to them, MrsM, it is sexy.

sexy is as sexy does.

who still fucking irons?!

I still iron, badly!

(Haven't read whole thread, just felt moved to post that!)

You don't have to@cushionn cover!

But some of us like to think about what these big cultural shifts mean. One minute - hairy is OK; the next - it's 'unhygienic' and you look like a 'yeti'. It's interesting how quickly it becomes the norm.

The woman I pay £1 a lb does! And a very good job she does too! I hate ironing with a passion.

I have embraced feminism and as such got educated, great job and still felt like I could ditch it all for my babies without losing any value or self worth. i feel comfortable in spending 'our' money that dp earns and have never had 'housekeeping' or 'pocket money'. I love it that I sometimes am a bit overgrown and that my dp finds me attractive whether I'm seven stone or ten, six pack or ready to pop.
Feminism has on occasion made my choice of staying at home a little tricky but that's more interpretation than intent.
I hate to think of men oogling at strippers and find it pretty repulsive and laughable that those who do strip feel empowered. I love MN and all the chances I get to write as I speak and read some of the funniest and witty stuff on the net!!!

I'm obviously shallow then!

i'm majorly shallow! i ditched hairy blokes and chaps with small cocks then and there.

I pay a lady to iron, £5.35 an hour.

I sometimes think feminism died because women just realised that sisterhood didn't work en masse and it was every lass out for themselves and their own!

I have had very few female bosses who weren't worse than men in so many respects when it came to equality etc.

Women don't care about other women that much other than on a very personal level in my experience. Feminism means you have some sense of solidarity doesn't it? I don't see that much of that but I'm sure there are loads of reasons for that.

No@cushioncover - I didn't mean that to sound aspatronising as it did. I just mean that a lot of people get quite 'personal' about this type of debate and pipe up with stuff like 'What? Are you saying I'm a bit thick and a woman-hater because I shave my fanny?', when nobody is really saying that. Well, I'm certainly not anyway.

I think it's more that I find it sad how obviously male dominated our culture still is and how oblivious so many otherwise intelligent women seem to be to that.

The fashion industry is run by gay men who design clothes for models who look like 16 yr old boys. Botox and plastic surgery are now acceptable and pedalled as a luxurious treat or something to 'give you confidence'. Women's pubic hair has become something disgusting and undesirable. I think it's all part of the same horrible vein of society that says that women are NOT good enough as they are. We must be slim with big boobs and bald fanjos and no cellulite and no trace of the fact that we may have given birth left on our bodies. It is depressing to me, sorry.

Mrs M, a girl who did my hair recently wanted to be just like Victoria Beckham I was both amazed and alarmed.
I feel sorry for girls nowadays who would sooner be in Hello than have a valuable career, sorry not Hello, Heat!