To have shouted at a stranger at the pool?

[Fullmooncomfort]

I’m still mulling this over so needed some opinions from you wise owls. The fact I’m still thinking about it makes me think I probably did the wrong thing 😖

scenario: busy pool today with Dd8 and her friend, we had just into a family cubicle to change after a nice swim. Changing rooms were busy and in high demand which is normal for weekend family swim time. We’d been in there for a couple of mins (so just at the stage I’m half dressed with dripping wet hair and the girls are wrapped up in towels slowly starting to dry off). The door to the cubicle gets banged on really loudly so I ignored it assuming someone had the wrong cubicle. However when it happened again really loudly I said “it’s occupied, won’t be too long” and the person on the other side started shouting about a jacket and rattling the door. The knocking and rattling of
the door continued and got louder and this girls started to get upset so I opened it a crack to say I think you’ve got the wrong cubicle, and a very red faced angry woman started shouting at me saying I’d taken her cubicle and stolen her daughter’s jacket 🤷‍♀️I had to speak loudly as she was literally just ranting and I said I think you have the wrong cubicle, it’s me and 2 girls and we are changing so please step away and you are welcome to come in when we are done but there’s nothing it in apart from our stuff.
She then put her hand on the door and continued to shout about a jacket, saying she needed to come in and check as I had clearly moved her clothes out of it and stolen the cubicle and jacket. I finally lost my temper and shouted back (I know that was wrong but it was awful, the girls were upset and she had her hand on the door so I couldn’t shut and lock it) and she started really yelling at me. I didn’t know what to do so asked loudly if security was around (lots of wide eyed parents standing who did nothing but not a lifeguard in sight as they were poolside and no security as they of course would normally have no reason to patrol a kids changing area)
She then screamed that I was racist and she was calling security on me for theft 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️and walked off, so I went back in to reassure the girls, having locked the door.
Next thing I know a lifeguard of about 17 who looked confused knocked on the door and said a lady had come to complain that her daughter’s expensive jacket had been stolen and I had been racist towards her. I felt really upset (I think just shock) and managed to wobble out the above story and that I was finishing getting the girls ready and we would come out and she could check it for this jacket (that clearly wasn’t in there). Then a security guard arrived so it was chaotic at this point, it all got repeated and she said she would try and find the women. She came back after a few minutes to say she’d spoken to her and told her she should have been polite and waited for us to exit before going in to check if the coat was in there, but that she had denied raising her voice and said that I had been deliberately goading and obstructive and racist. I got quite upset and said I certainly wasn’t racist or goading and while I did stop her entering the cubicle it was only because the girls were naked and we had just started getting changed. She sort of shrugged and nodded and walked off and I gathered up my things and we left. I feel awful for having lost my temper and shouted at her and for security, which scared the girls more, but I simply lost my rag after repeated attempts to ask her to wait while
we finished changing, and then she was so aggressive. I’ve had to explain to the girls what racist means and how It was nothing to do with race, but I’m mortified my DD and her friend saw me raise my voice and shout at her to move away from the civil cubicle. WWYHD in that situation? My gut tells me I handled it badly but it was all so sudden and intense and I think my fear turned into anger ☹️

well you'd simply not swim in my village then as there are only open changing rooms, no cubicles

If we agree on the basic principle of extending the concept of believing women's reported experience to minority ethnicities and their reported experience, then that is fab.

The arguments you make about people misreporting their experiences in order to escape scrutiny for their actions can also be / are also made by those who think that we shouldn't claim SA if we were drunk, wore a shirt skirt, or have had one night stands.

I'm a spring child, BTW - but yes, pure in my idealism!

The comparison is between women reporting experience of sexual harassment and a member of a minority ethnicity reporting experiencing disparaging treatment due to their ethnicity.

It is not about asking the perpetrator what triggered then to offend to somehow justify the offence. We don't ask the perpetrator how short the woman's skirt was.

Perhaps this is what you are finding challenging with understanding the fundamental underlying principle.

The irony is, she goes on to describe an ‘angry’ man shouting at her in the cubicle in her post!!
I wonder was this man white?
Would she have described him differently if he were not?
Such nonsense!

a member of a minority ethnicity reporting experiencing disparaging treatment due to their ethnicity.

No, due to their behaviour.

I see it that the the OP is victim of an assault, not a physical one, but still, it was an unprovoked attack.

But that doesn't seem to have stopped you coming on here and questioning whether she did something wrong has it, even though she obviously hasn't.

I'd check your unconscious bias if I were you.

Same as every one I’ve ever been to! 😁

Yeah, we can also compare this to a woman reporting an unprovoked attack and allegation of racism in a changing room.

Perhaps you're finding it challenging to be unbiased when it comes to people who are victims of false allegations.

@FrauPaige

If this had been a man trying to get into the changing room, would you have the same attitude?

If not, why not, if all people who claim racism are to be believed?

Yep!

What if it had been a black man in the changing room and white woman trying to get her belongings, and she alleged the man had touched her inappropriately when he tried to close the door?
What if it had been a straight black man and white homosexual, who accused the black man of homophobia for not allowing him to come in the cubicle?
What I would like to know is how FrauPaige would have reacted to the situation and how she would have felt at being accused of racism, homophobia, transphobia, Islamophobia, sexism, sexual assault for not allowing somebody who was clearly angry, into her changing room with her naked children and for shouting at them to go away!

Honestly it drives me potty

Apparently when a random stranger tries to barge into a cubicle where some 8 year olds are getting dressed the first thing you're supposed to do is check your privilege.

And be aware you're very very much in the wrong, whatever you do!

This conversation has run it's course. All the best to you, @Wheredidileavemycarkeys

I was mugged of my phone and purse and punched in the face as a teenager by three black girls I had never met.
When I pointed them out to the police in the back of the police car, I was accused of being racist, they were shouting ‘We didn’t do anything, she is just being racist because we are black. She tried to attack us because she doesn’t like black people.’
But according to you, they should have been believed and I should have been charged with wasting police time, making a false report and racism?

Ha the aggressive nutter called the OP racist as they weren't getting their way; hence why the term is completely devalued nowadays. That term is now weaponised to stop anyone from putting up further debate or challenge.

Otherwise known as a 'do-gooder'. You feel empathy for someone who abused a woman in front of 2 children and made false allegations? Why?

We must brush up on our reading comprehension skills.

I have said repeatedly that from OPs account, she has done nothing wrong.

I have simply taken a step back and have drawn a comparison between believing women who experience SA and believing minority ethnicities that experience RA, and logically extrapolating that if we believe women we must also believe minorities.

It is a simple exercise of logic and feminist theory.

It was also "us" who was getting infrequently shouted at in the streets for being a different colour 20 years ago, and "us" who were getting shouted at in the streets regularly for being a different colour 40 years ago.

And "we" should not be behaving like this woman. It's that simple.

I'm sorry are you being condescending to me because I'm Asian? You haven't taken this tone with anyone else on this thread have you.

Because of their skin colour.

How is it not racist in itself to believe that black people require to be infantilised to this degree? That they are not responsible for their own actions and poor behaviour? That they should somehow be held to a different standard?

Let’s examine the incident as presented. The OP was minding her own business in a closed cubicle and some random person comes along, starts rattling the door, falsely accusing her of theft, and rudely demanding entry. In what way, shape or form is that not acting like an arsehole? I’m not sure why you keep bringing up SA, that has zero bearing on the situation being discussed, and despite your claimed pure idealism, comes across as a rather cynical and unpleasant attempt to defend your casting subtle aspersions on the OP by, in a roundabout way, defending her antagonist’s antisocial and accusatory behaviour. In conclusion, I don’t think you're anywhere near as pure as you flatter yourself to be, because you’re doing the very thing you’re criticising above, which is making excuses and not believing her.

Being verbally aggressive and trying to force entry into a cubicle where 3 females are getting undressed is the issue at hand here. That is threatening behaviour that isn’t acceptable. There is nothing more to this incident.

I am sorry that you had that awful experience.

However, I am saying no such thing. I am extrapolating the concept of believing women who have experienced SA to minorities reporting having experienced RA. A simple exercise of logic.

Holes in the argument with one premise also stand true for the other - logically. I want my daughter to be heard when she reports SA, but I also want a fair investigation so that false claims are unsuccessful.

Were you charged and convicted of an offence in that incident?

It is a simple exercise of logic and feminist theory.

It's a simple exercise in pseudo-intellectual wankery 😂

Haha wtf. You were so desperate to go against the OP that you had to invent a completely different scenario. It wasn't really inappropriate at all. It's seriously weird that you think it is.