To have shouted at a stranger at the pool?

[Fullmooncomfort]

I’m still mulling this over so needed some opinions from you wise owls. The fact I’m still thinking about it makes me think I probably did the wrong thing 😖

scenario: busy pool today with Dd8 and her friend, we had just into a family cubicle to change after a nice swim. Changing rooms were busy and in high demand which is normal for weekend family swim time. We’d been in there for a couple of mins (so just at the stage I’m half dressed with dripping wet hair and the girls are wrapped up in towels slowly starting to dry off). The door to the cubicle gets banged on really loudly so I ignored it assuming someone had the wrong cubicle. However when it happened again really loudly I said “it’s occupied, won’t be too long” and the person on the other side started shouting about a jacket and rattling the door. The knocking and rattling of
the door continued and got louder and this girls started to get upset so I opened it a crack to say I think you’ve got the wrong cubicle, and a very red faced angry woman started shouting at me saying I’d taken her cubicle and stolen her daughter’s jacket 🤷‍♀️I had to speak loudly as she was literally just ranting and I said I think you have the wrong cubicle, it’s me and 2 girls and we are changing so please step away and you are welcome to come in when we are done but there’s nothing it in apart from our stuff.
She then put her hand on the door and continued to shout about a jacket, saying she needed to come in and check as I had clearly moved her clothes out of it and stolen the cubicle and jacket. I finally lost my temper and shouted back (I know that was wrong but it was awful, the girls were upset and she had her hand on the door so I couldn’t shut and lock it) and she started really yelling at me. I didn’t know what to do so asked loudly if security was around (lots of wide eyed parents standing who did nothing but not a lifeguard in sight as they were poolside and no security as they of course would normally have no reason to patrol a kids changing area)
She then screamed that I was racist and she was calling security on me for theft 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️and walked off, so I went back in to reassure the girls, having locked the door.
Next thing I know a lifeguard of about 17 who looked confused knocked on the door and said a lady had come to complain that her daughter’s expensive jacket had been stolen and I had been racist towards her. I felt really upset (I think just shock) and managed to wobble out the above story and that I was finishing getting the girls ready and we would come out and she could check it for this jacket (that clearly wasn’t in there). Then a security guard arrived so it was chaotic at this point, it all got repeated and she said she would try and find the women. She came back after a few minutes to say she’d spoken to her and told her she should have been polite and waited for us to exit before going in to check if the coat was in there, but that she had denied raising her voice and said that I had been deliberately goading and obstructive and racist. I got quite upset and said I certainly wasn’t racist or goading and while I did stop her entering the cubicle it was only because the girls were naked and we had just started getting changed. She sort of shrugged and nodded and walked off and I gathered up my things and we left. I feel awful for having lost my temper and shouted at her and for security, which scared the girls more, but I simply lost my rag after repeated attempts to ask her to wait while
we finished changing, and then she was so aggressive. I’ve had to explain to the girls what racist means and how It was nothing to do with race, but I’m mortified my DD and her friend saw me raise my voice and shout at her to move away from the civil cubicle. WWYHD in that situation? My gut tells me I handled it badly but it was all so sudden and intense and I think my fear turned into anger ☹️

Agree, it would be better to do it at home

Sure, but I’m not really seeing what this woman experienced that could count as a racially motivated attack? In what way would the outcome have been different is she were white?

YANBU. You didn't do anything wrong and she was a crazy bitch.
In fact, you showed the girls a good example of boundaries and .asking the woman wait.
I would have god damn shouted too.
Don't give it another thought xxxx

As your girls were wrapped up in towels (not naked), I would have simply opened the door enough for the woman to see there was no jacket in the cubicle.

You’re a better woman than me, I would have well and truly lost my shit before you did, and wouldn’t feel bad about it in the slightest.

OP, the woman was a lunatic and deserves no more of your mental energy

Thanks. Yes, it was shitty, to the point where I even avoided that bus route for a while. It’s tricky, as I, too, didn’t take it meekly. Did that escalate the situation? Probably, but on the other hand is it reasonable to allow people to get away with bullying and upsetting you for no good reason? No, I don’t think it is. It’s all very well people coming along after the fact and stating that it could have been dealt with in a calm and dispassionate way, but some people are just determined to cause drama. I actually think they get off on it.

Asking what the woman could have experienced that was racist is like asking what an SA victim was wearing the night she was attacked or investigating her sexual her sexual history.

We do not ask the perpetrator to qualify that the victim was assaulted or harassed.

As to what may have been experienced that was racist, neither you nor I have insight into that. However, we both understand that communication is nuanced and that tone and language can have a great affect on how a listener may perceive one's attitude towards them.

I don't believe there has been a claim of there being a racially motivated attack, has there? My reading of the OPs account is that the woman believed that she was being treated in a disparaging way by OP due to her ethnicity.

Looks like the pool lunatic has found the thread! 😂😂

But she wasn’t though was she? OP was responding to her behaviour.

Did this woman genuinely not realise banging on someones cubical door, accusing the occupants of theft and demanding be allowed in to the cubical while they were still using it might not elicit an entirely positive response?

I have ADHD so problems regulating strong emotions - someone doing that while my kids were changing inside a cubicle would have triggered my mama bear to come out and I think you did very well controlling your emotions. When we lose our temper its us losing control of our emotions so that's why it felt uncomfortable for you but doesn't mean you were in the wrong.

Because she opened the door and saw her? One would assume she already thought she was aggressive prior to knowing her ethnicity, therefore this is a moot point.

I didn't bring race into this, the woman the OP is writing about did.

You did everything right. You protected your children from an aggressive woman.

YWNBI. Its wholly unacceptable to interrupt people in a changing cubicle and to obstruct them from shutting the door to allow them the privacy to change, but it is particularly contemptible to through around accusations of racism and theft casually. They are both serious offences and anyone accused of them can have their life destroyed by association, even if not guilty. The woman should have apologised and been told that if she disturbs other guests in such an aggressive way again, she will be banned from the pool. Anxiety over a lost coat is no excuse.

Neither you nor I were there, nor are we able to view cctv footage. From OPs account it certainly seems that no wrongdoing took place - but there are two sides to every story.

Again, if we ask that women be believed when we report experiencing SH/SA, then we should logically and morally extend the same courtesy to minority ethnicities when they report experiencing RH/RAA.

Do you have a logical argument opposing this position?

*throw

Why would you not shout though? You had your two daughters with you and an unhinged woman trying to force herself into your cabin while you were changing. You had the right reaction in a very unnerving situation.

That woman sounds completely unhinged. I think you’re thinking about it still because it was an upsetting experience, not because you did anything wrong.

YANBU

she sounds insane

While you have a point to a certain extent, there are limits. One of those limits is people trying to get away with or make excuses for acting like arseholes. If you think they don’t do that, then bless you, sweet summer child, you’re too pure for this world.

I would probably have done the same too, with a roll of my eyes and a passive aggressive, tight smile. I might have added a parting shot of 'are you happy now?'

But just because I would have done that, doesn't mean the OP was in the wrong for not doing it. If the woman was physically trying to force her way inside once the OP opened the door a crack, that would make most people more likely to slam the door shut and insist on keeping it shut. That's extremely offensive behaviour given that people are getting changed on the other side of the door.

Turn this on its head. The OP is black, the shouty woman was white. Should the OP and the children have agreed to stand there half dressed while their changing room is searched immediately by some huffy white woman who is convinced they are trying to steal her jacket, rather than making her wait a couple of minutes until they are dressed and ready?

I can't see that being complied with lightly by many black women, can you?

my 13 old niece went to the swimming pool in cleethropes about a year ago she was with her friend they just went swimming having a good time when this teenager stranger went up to my neice and hit her in the face on purpose really hard to the point that she had a black eye and bruising on her face cheek and forehead no idea who this young person was or why she hit my niece my niece said she didnt say or do anything just stood their in shock and disbelief what is a world coming to awful she didnt want to go back there again the police wasnt involved or no one saw anything no life guards no security no one it spolit my niece day out. Horrible i felt so sorry for her

As I said if the woman acted as the OP said she did then it shouldn’t have come as a massive surprised if she was shouted at. I find it hard to believe that she genuinely thought someone was racist for not letting her into the cubical when it was in use or shouting at her to get away.

This.

People projecting some imagined racism into OP's story and comparing it to believing a woman who comes forward about rape is disingenuous and ridiculous.

Mumsnet virtue signalling at its finest.

I guarantee if the races were reversed the responses would be very different... Probably with a few "Karens" thrown in.

The woman sounds nuts. Normal people would give a knock and say "just wondering if there's a jacket in there?" and then they would accept the response and wait for the person to leave the cubicle.

Yes, calling women of colour "aggressive" or "angry" has been used in harmful ways... But any person regardless of race CAN be aggressive and angry and acting like we shouldn't address such behaviour is just stupid.

@Wheredidileavemycarkeys I am not judging you - you seem to be a decent person. I simply invite you to reframe how we view and discuss these issues as it was us in this situation 20 years ago.

It was us who were being belittled as irrational if we raised displeasure at being patted on the bottom repeatedly at the office, it was us that were asked what harm was done, and it was us that were assured that the man in question meant no harm and that it was just how things were.

Looking at things through a purely logical lens, I see no difference at all.

I am not judging you

I never said you were.

I’m not sure what comparison can be made between having your bottom patted and falsely accusing someone of theft though.