Arguing with an old lady

[MrsTurner3]

I was at an old run down shopping centre today. I had my 4 year old walking and my 1 year old in the buggy and needed to get the only working lift so I stood waiting for about 5 minutes for it for to up and down past my floor several times before it finally stopped for us. I had noticed an old (70s ish) lady stood waiting behind us and as the lift stopped and everyone piled out she edged her way around us to be first outside the door.

I should say here that I hate people who jump queues and think they are entitled to things more than other people. It's a big peeve of mine.

I just knew she was making her way to get in there first so I started pushing the buggy towards the lift and she turned around and said " Are you going up or down?" I said down (I'd pressed the down button outside). And she said "Oh well I'm going up, so we will go up first, and then you can go down". I was annoyed and replied "Well no, since I've been waiting longer we will go down first and then you can go up." She got in the lift and pressed the button for her floor and then said "Oh look, my floor has already been pressed by someone." She had a smug smile on her face.

Maybe I need some therapy to understand why people being smug and entitled triggers me so much - anyway as I'm getting into the lift I blurted out "You are so rude you know. First you push in front of me, then you tell me I have to wait for you to go to your floor and then I can go to mine, then you blatantly lie to get your own way and look really happy about it". She said that when I get to her age I will understand and I said something along the lines of "Just because you are old, it doesn't entitle you to get your own way and do whatever you want". She got out of the lift and laughed at me and walked off.

I wish I had kept my cool. I had to explain to my 4 year old that mummy was standing up to someone being rude and trying to get their own way, but I think the message of "don't be a pushover" will have been lost to the image of me just arguing with an old lady.

I know I could have done better, but am I totally unreasonable for not wanting to be a people pleasing pushover and for actually standing up to people, regardless of their age? If she had been feeling unwell or looked infirm and at least asked if we could go to her floor first rather than tell me, I'd more than likely have said yes.

OK, fair enough. But you expressed concern at how you came across to your child and had to explain yourself afterwards, so I'm assuming it was more than a polite and respectful sharing of your perspective.

I think it's odd that you've told me to be careful to assume anything , but you've assumed I'm young and healthy and didn't also need to use the lift quickly.

ODFOD

You are calling someone 'old'. It is a legitimate inference that you are not seeing yourself as 'old' as the whole tone of your post is perjorative about the old.

Given that you say you have a 1 year old it is legitimate inference that you are of child bearing age on probability basis.

Given from your post that you are clearly a very easily triggered and an aggressive woman not afraid of confrontation and full of your own entitlement, there is zero possiblity that you have a disability that entitles you to use the lift at speed that you wouldn't have spat in this poor woman's face and vaunted to his here to support your own position.

So I'd say it's a legitimate inference rather than an assumption.

IN your case however, given what the woman said to you, it's clear you are making assumptions.

Wow. Well it's really awkward then that I actually do have a complex issue (not officially a disability but definitely something disabling) that affects me when I'm standing for long periods of time, sometimes causing me to pass out, however I don't and wouldn't use it as an excuse to get my own way in this situation or to win favour here in a post. It wasn't relevant in my OP because that was about the woman's rude attitude and feeling entitled to do what she pleased.

How do you know my children are not adopted and I'm actually older than childbearing age? How do you know my wife didn't give birth to them and I am significantly older than her?

Also "aggressive woman not afraid of confrontation" is also untrue. The reason I posted this is because even though I have owned the fact that I got annoyed and triggered, it isn't like me to then act on it. I was shaken by the situation for a good few hours afterwards . Clearly if I wasn't afraid of confrontation and it was second nature to me I wouldn't care to ask for other people's opinions.

It's not legitimate inference, it's assumption after assumption after assumption. The ODFOD feeling is reciprocated.

It's just not like me to speak up. I'm quite quiet and felt shaken about it afterwards. Whilst it felt right at the time to say something (and still does), I had a conflicting niggle as I always had it drilled into me as a child to respect my elders without any question, so I wanted to see what others thought. But yes it was just as I originally wrote. No yelling or swearing. I simply called her out and told her she was behaving rudely.

Like a PP said, I would have pressed all the buttons below her floor so it stopped at every one 😂

How do you know my children are not adopted and I'm actually older than childbearing age? How do you know my wife didn't give birth to them and I am significantly older than her?

Because of your own posts!!!
the woman said to you 'when you get to my age' and you are calling her old. She wouldn't have said that to you and you wouldn't be calling her old if you were old too. You are repeatedly referring to her as older than you. You say your own mother is in her 70s.

Obviously I can't be 'sure' that you weren't talking about an adopted/surrogate child which is why I said

"Given that you say you have a 1 year old it is legitimate inference that you are of child bearing age on probability basis."

Like I said it's not an assumption as you say, it's a logical inference. Your defensiveness suggests I was right

& it looks in fact like I was right given that you say were pregnant in 2023.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/parenting/4728539-car-seat-help

Looking at my posts (bit creepy) to find out information about me AFTER the fact does not mean you didn't still assume those things when you wrote your first comment patronisingly advising me not to make assumptions. Like you said yourself, you couldn't be sure, but you acted like you were.

Just like you couldn't be sure when you said there was ZERO chance of me having any sort of health reason to not want to stand around for long periods of time. Notice you didn't bring that one up again like you did the others to back up your point 😂

Come on OP - you could argue for Britain !

don't worry, to a 4 year old, all adults are old, they probably don;t have that much distinction😁

It was a dick move of her to ask whether you're going up or down if her intention was not to offer to go in your direction first. If she was going to be selfish, then she didn't need to bring attention to what she was doing; just press the button and get on with it. I think once you identify that you're in the presence of an asshole, explaining to your kids that it's polite to wait your turn, whilst side eyeing the queue jumper is probably a better approach than trying to confront said ahole.

Just like you couldn't be sure when you said there was ZERO chance of me having any sort of health reason to not want to stand around for long periods of time. Notice you didn't bring that one up again like you did the others to back up your point

Well I was hoping to avoid it but given you have raised this, I didn't respond on that point because I am afraid I don't believe you & wanted to avoid telling you that I thought you were lying as it was unnecessary. Both because of your defensiveness (which on at least one issue was proven nonsense) and the vocal nature of your posts & attack on this woman for just wheedling her way into a lift before you that fitted you both. Who cares? You a great deal apparently enough to get in a row with her. I stand by my opinion that I think that if you had a health reason you would have not just said this to the "old" woman and in your post here but made a Big Thing of it. Sorry but just my opinion.

you didn't still assume those things when you wrote your first comment patronisingly advising me not to make assumptions. Like you said yourself, you couldn't be sure, but you acted like you were.

You aren't reading what I have said. There is a big difference between an informed inference BASED on what you have said and a true assumption with no information. My inferences were all likely and based on what you yourself had written. I didn't "act like I was sure" because if you are able to read, you will see I clearly said inference and in respect of the childbearing age, I said it was a probability. I was right.

Yes definitely the best way I think!!!

Good parenting OP! You need to show your kids how to stand up for themselves. That old woman was wrong.

I don't need you to believe me. Believe what you like.

DH and I have said for years some older people think the world owes them a living.

My own DM at 70 said “I’m old now so I can be as rude as I like.”

Is your H bring ironic perhaps? Because society quite literally does. It's called retirement pension in the UK. You work while you're young and able and pay into the system then 'the world' provides you with a living when you no longer can. In societies without this system elders are looked after in different ways. Few places in the world have the negative and resentful attitudes to this as some seem to in the UK though. This is of course irrelevant to rudeness. Your MiL shouldn't be deliberately rude.

She sounds typical of most of the older folk I come across tbh.
That said, my own mum is over 80 and in that situation she'd have waited back, went in the wrong direction first and smiled at your kids, despite probably not having the energy (due to illness) to do so. The lady was cheeky but please consider that some older folk might be struggling more than they let on. Of course anyone could be struggling, but pride can be more of an issue in older folk.

I’m over 70. The older lady was rude and entitled. How dare she. You have a lot on your plate and just don’t need this behaviour from anyone.
I just hope no one calls me an Old lady or elderly or a pensioner. I’m me and am only 25 in a 70 year old body.
I’m sorry you had to put up with such a rude, entitled. Non empathetic person. You deserve better. X

I’ve personally dealt with WAY more rude elderly and middle aged people, particularly women, than I have younger people. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve met a few really rude and nasty teenagers, but generally I tend to find older women the worst, especially when I worked in retail and hospitality, my god they were entitled and just spoke to me like shit most of the time, just my
personal experience though obviously.

I’ve had a similar situation to you recently, I’m 9 months pregnant, and had my 3 year old son holding my hand and 2 year old step daughter in a stroller waiting for the lift in the Bullring shopping centre in Birmingham. Obviously not in any state to be trying to pull a stroller, a three year old and my very pregnant self up the steps, so we’d been waiting for the lift for a while, when it came a middle aged women, her husband and their 10 year old son literally pushed past us and got into the lift, and didn’t make any room for us to get in. I was SO angry but didn’t want to start shouting at them in a busy place with two kids with me, so I just muttered some profanities under my breath at them hoping they heard 😂

Well done OP. Think I'd have aimed the buggy accidentally clipped her shins in the confusion, what with both of us thinking we were first in the queue at the lift doors. Swivel wheels can be so difficult to manage in crowded areas!

This. It's exhausting standing your ground for every little thing and I don't think an elderly woman who didn't really hurt anyone is a great opponent to stand up to. Yes, of course, you were right and she was wrong but does it really matter? There will be other opportunities to teach your kids to stand up for themselves.

Having said that if I'd been in your position I'm not sure how I would have reacted. It's easy to say I'd have just laughed it off but I can imagine thst if I was exhausted, frustrated or in a bad mood I might have got peeved at her as well.

I am old! One of things I've almost perfected with time is to pick my battles. Rail at injustice - yes. Stand up for the little guy - yes. Women's rights - hell, yes!

An extra 40 seconds in a lift? Nah.

I think you're just mad she got the better of you and didn't give two hoots about you trying to upbraid her. You get entitlement at all ages but I really wouldn't want to go through life challenging each and every occasion. You'll be walking around permanently indignant. Let it go.

I am afraid I don't believe you

Then why on earth are you posting repeatedly on the thread? If you're right and she's lying, you're wasting your time; if you're wrong and she's not, you're being rude and hurtful.