WWYD Ambushed By Ex's Family

[LoneWolfOfThePack]

Hi,

I have a previous thread on here about ex and contact with my dd so won't go into too much detail again about it here to try to keep it as short, but for context I have a 10 week old DD, haven't been with her dad since I found out about the pregnancy and has had no contact so far. Social services have completed a risk assessment on him and have recommended supervised contact in a contact center funded by him... there has been no action on this so far and the last interaction I had with him was over 2 weeks ago when I told him to seek legal advice if he wasnt happy with what the ss recommended for court. He threw a strop, got abusive and I had to block him again.

The issue... today I went with a family member and their child to a local market stall type event. I saw 1 of exs sisters there and attempted the best I could to avoid her until she approached me and asked if I was lonepack, I said yes and she immediately picked up my sleeping DD out of her pram. A couple seconds later exs mother, other sister and 8 kids (assuming theirs) surrounded me and the pram so I couldn't move and proceeded to pass DD between them. Still not once did they ask if that was okay.

They then bombarded me with questions about why they can't have contact, they can't get in touch with the social worker, etc etc. They also confirmed (unintentionally I think) that ex had indeed been continuing to lie to myself and social services to downplay his risk.

They say that they want contact with my DD without ex knowing or being present. In a panic to get DD back so I could leave I said I'd think about it and gave them my number then practically ran away before I had an anxiety attack or worse they contacted ex to join in the ambush.

I will be notifying SS of this interaction tomorrow but I don't know what to do moving forward. Its shook me up abit as I've not had any interaction with any of them (apart from exs harassment) in almost a year until today.

Does anyone have any advice moving forward? WWYD in my situation? Do I let them have contact in the agreement that ex has no knowledge or involvement?

Crikey, how scary for you. It sounds like you froze in horror and then couldn't think clearly about what to do.

I think you are doing the right thing informing SS about what happened and, like some other posters, I would report it to the police too. The reason being that with hindsight I would be wondering if it was an attempt to snatch the baby. The sudden arrival of that large group of them, even if their presence might have been coincidental, was in itself very intimidating I am sure. Perhaps it was intended to be? Or perhaps they are twats with no sense of boundaries? You can't possibly know, but I wouldn't want to come across them again and find out.

Call the police 101 number now to discuss what happened and why both you and SS are concerned about your ex and his family being a threat to your baby girl. State that you couldn't be sure that this wasn't an attempt to take her.

If they call you then hang up the call and block the number. Keep doing that until you have all of them blocked. If they then keep handing your number on to random friends to try and get you then you'll have to consider changing your number.

If any of them come to your door then DO NOT ANSWER IT! If you have anything like a Ring doorbell (or other brand of video doorbell) then use that to keep an eye on them but don't open the door.

Good luck tomorrow. I hope your meeting with SS is helpful.

Any chance of you changing your name and moving far far away.

Or just round the corner for now.

I would be locking down my SM and looking at anyone who leaks anything about you to this family as someone to be cut off

This sounds incredibly dangerous. Have you got CCTV/Ring doorbell/cameras inside and outside your house
Even a few old mobile phones propped up on a shelf or somewhere slightly hidden and plugged in so battery doesn’t go on them and set to filming the room all day and night
especially one facing the doorway or on a windowsill to record the front garden or back door

Firstly, they didn’t ambush you.

You just both happened to be in the same place at the same time and they came over to see their grandchild/niece, which most people with any sort of heart would do.

I think you did the right thing in the moment by giving them your number to appease them.

Would you want them to have contact if ex wasn’t on the scene?

I think having a relationship with wider family members can be very beneficial for both baby and you but as the ex is high risk then I completely understand your concerns.

If you want them to have contact then I would explain your concerns to them and say that you want them to have contact but cannot risk ex having contact due to SS involvement.

So if they want contact then they would need to go through a contact centre.
These are free and can be accessed without SS involvement.

Have you read what SS said about these people. Somehow I don’t see it being beneficial to anyone involved. And yes they did ambush her. They surrounded her and grabbed her baby from their pram

This isn't op's fault.
OP I would inform the police. You don't just go snatching people's babies from prams like that. It's terrifying.

Yes please don't blame yourself OP. It's an evolutionary response - in the past when we may have found a big animal that wanted to eat us we'd fight, run away (flight) or freeze (as some animals will leave prey if they're still). It's a system to keep us safe and it's not something we conciously do, the bit of brain that fires during a threat just acts. It's very normal to think afterwards I should've done this, this and this, but at the time your brain doesn't work like that, it just reacts automatically. I agree about talking to the SS tomorrow, getting a ring doorbell so you don't have to answer the door if you don't know who it is (and it might make you feel safer) and also not answering the phone (and maybe considering getting a new number if needed). I'm sorry this happened to you.

It wasnt a random comment. It was part of a bigger conversation about abusive partners/exs and the power of control they can have through a child when they have PR. They didn't specifically say he would murder DD. They said that if A PARENT (mainly male thats why i said he) has PR and chooses to withhold that DC from the other parent and use them as a pawn then there isn't anything in a legal sense that could be done because they've done nothing wrong. Unless there was evidence that parent was abusing DC then there is no lawful charge they could bring and even then they'd still have rights to a relationship with the child so that ammunition through the child could continue until they decide to kill DC and only then would a charge and PR fully end.

I acknowledge that's abit graphic but it's reality to some people and whilst it may seem like a random comment or conversation to have, reading my previous post might highlight to some people why having detailed conversations with ss that may seem odd.

Absolutely there is a sinister feel and I would absolutely getting myself away from them all.

It may be that his family aren't a risk, that they know he's a danger and wouldn't try and push any contact with him, by them having contact, if that is something you wish to try in the future. However, this is something you absolutely should speak to social services about as they may want to risk assess his family, depending on the risk factors of him. They will also advise you if they think it's not a good idea. I'm guessing that with the situation that SS have put in place so far, you probably have a good SW in your corner.

TBH I think you were right by freezing when they were passing your baby around. I can only imagine the argument that would have developed if you had asked for your baby back before they had all 'had a cuddle' (an attitude I intensely dislike because your dd is a person not a pet, and even a baby cat or dog would hate being passed around like a parcel by a bunch of strangers).

They want contact and to lie to your ex about it? I wouldn't get involved in that at all, you don't need the aggravation and the ensuing drama.

If they do contact you, block them. If they want to see your dd they can do it via your ex.

@DemonicCaveMaggot I think they more likely want to lie by omission, so not necessarily lie to ex about the contact taking place as its highly unlikely he would randomly ask them that but I suspect that it's to set them up in a more positive narrative if he was to find out...

Or it could just be a ploy for me to say okay and then after a couple of meets he will "randomly" turn up too and for them to play dumb like they weren't expecting it but of course I'd get the abuse for facilitating contact he didn't want them to have and they will get hugs because they planned this all along and got him his "family day" with me and DD.

I agree.

And I think if the family are ok and you’d like them to have contact, then a contact centre would still be the best place for them to meet on neutral ground.

You have a perfectly valid excuse to meet them in a contact centre because of your SS involvement and his high risk.
So they cannot persuade or coerce you to do anything else, because you can say you want to do everything by the book.

If you don’t want them to have contact then tell them that they need to sort it with ex and he’ll need to go through a contact centre as SS have suggested.

People are saying to block their number.
You do what you think is best but I think having a line of communication open (you don’t need to regularly respond), reduces the chance of anyone turning up at your door.

It also means you have written proof of any threats or promises that he/they’ve made.

When my ex took me to mediation to claim I stopped him seeing his DD, I had years worth of written evidence to prove that I’d done nothing of the sort and he’d been aggressive etc and him refusing to see her etc.
So having that proof may work in your favour if it does go to court.

This is not true. I know from experience that grandmothers DO get court ordered access.

Even when violence towards the mother from the grandmother was involved. I shit you not.

Do you have the money to move away, OP? I'd go as far as possible to avoid this man and his family.

Move. Far away.

I suppose it could be genuine and they just want to build a bond with DD and don't respect ex enough to care about how he will view that (I know through ex and personal observation that they have a very dysfunctional dynamic). He did at an earlier date randomly ask for my agreement in his family not having any contact with DD unless he had had contact first so I do believe that he had told his sister not to approach me in the street, like she said because they had apparently told him they were going to pursue me or ss for contact of their own.

Like i said there is many what ifs about this whole situation today that im not comfortable with any of them playing out.

I think it Is sensible to discuss this with social and explore with them how you should manage interaction with the family.

OP do they all live nearby? I'm assuming ex knows your address and so therefore do they??

Do you have safety measures and security at home? eg ring doorbell/cctv? If not I'd get some so you don't have to answer the door without seeing who is there, and to record footage too.

I'd perhaps have a plan in place for if you see them in public again. For example "sorry we can't stop I'm late for an appointment" ..... "please don't pick baby up out of pram we don't have time to stop" etc.

You said you'd given your number, just block them if they get in touch.

As you've said, ex could be having contact with baby already but he's not bothered and is trying to use it to access you. I'm glad ss are supportive and concerned. Sounds like they have the measure of him. They could be also having contact with ex I'm sure if he was happy to sort out the contact centre they'd likely be able to be included, it's not on you to facilitate contact with his family members and more importantly doing so puts you at risk.

If you all live near each other I'd be strongly considering long term plans and whether relocation is an option. Doing it sooner rather than later may be a good call if possible. Even a small amount of distance if you also have family nearby, but if you don't move faaaar away. If you need to stay locally I'd have some plans in place for future possible ambushes.

I think it's probably the latter and he is managing this. Either way it's very problematic and I would be moving away if I could.

@LoneWolfOfThePack

The very first thing I'd do right away is get a Ring doorbell. You can monitor who is at the door and simply not answer. The idea that in such a delicate situation they would consider just showing up at your door is concerning, at least it is to me.

It doesn't sound to me as if you know these people very well. Do you really know them well enough to trust that they won't bring your ex into the mix or start demanding 'solo time' with your child?

I completely understand them wanting to see their new family member. But ambushing you 'en masse' in a public place was not on. It speaks to me of people who don't 'get' boundaries. I'd proceed with caution, and if you do decide to permit visits, I'd agree to only one or two (starting with the grandparents) at a time AND in the 'neutral' home of a third party (a relative's or a friend's) with a time limit. Or if you do agree to them coming to your home, you make sure there is someone there to support you who wouldn't be afraid to speak up to them on your behalf.

Oh, and I agree with PPs that you may want to consider relocating. If not from the town itself, then perhaps to another area of the town not close to where you are now.

I just remembered that they said it's obvious I'm not deemed a risk to DD so it's unlikely SS involvement will be for much longer so if I wouldn't facilitate contact then they'd just wait until ss were out of the picture.

Again, I don't know if that was a low key threat or if they would ask again when it because less of a risk for me to agree (in their eyes)

Yes. That does sound very much like a threat!! Really, your updates just make them sound more threatening! They sound like the fucking Mafia with their sinister "low key" threats!

What the fuck?

I'm in the US and there isn't as much 'SS involvement' here so I don't always understand the 'whens and whys' they get involved in the UK.

What would give them the idea that you were even being considered a 'risk' to DD? And what did they mean 'by waiting until SS is out of the picture'? I don't understand what that would have to do with anything. Could it mean that they don't want you to have 'quick access' to a Social Worker for advice?

This. Please contact the police, they will arrange for officers to come and visit you and take a statement. Before that, write down very factually what happened as you have done here. Eg

That they approached you without warning in a public place
there was a group of 12 and you with only one family member
they they took baby out the pram and refused to give baby back
that you were scared, your companion said what she thought they wanted to hear unto you got baby back
you were scared and intimated into giving your number
that they tried to to persuade you to lie to social services
that you were scared your ex would appear and SS have judged him to be a risk to baby

Don’t worry about anything you said to them being used against you, you were scared for the safety of you and baby, you did the right thing to be conciliatory .

The police will advise you what you do. Make sure you get the police incident number and the shoulder number of the police who come to see you.

Give this info to social services IN WRITING.

As PP have said , do NOT under any circumstances respond to his family in any way.

If they text you, screenshot the text and block the number.
if they call you, say “ don’t ever contact me again “ , hang up, screenshot the call log and block them.

Yes they might be totally innocent and want to see baby, but that’s not your problem. Even if they are the best people in the world. The person who has created their problem is your ex and his shitty behaviour.

You have one job here - to keep you and baby safe. And in your situtation , that’s best done by cooperating with SS. I am no fan of them, but they have all the power here. So rightly or wrongly , you need to be seen to do what they want.

Im sorry you are in this horrible situation.