To choose the local state comp over the high achieving private boys school?

[Seaofcake]

We have narrowed down our secondary school choices to two options and DH and I disagree about which one is best. DH is willing to pay for private and although it wouldn’t by any means be a drop in the ocean, we could do it.

We’ve gone round in circles with this decision. My pros and cons are below. Any advice would really be welcome.

State comp

Pros

• Mixed sex
• 10 minute drive in rush hour. He could walk or catch the bus eventually.
• Ofsted report is outstanding in all areas
• Enrichment programme
• Strict on behaviour
• 1.5 mile catchment, local kids
• Get to stay in area and younger DC can go to primary when ready.

Cons

• Less chance for trips and opportunities, will need to fight for them
• Some kids look rough when we’ve hung around during end of school day (but there is a good number of polite, decent kids too; it’s just very varied)
• Only 20% scored above 7 in English and Maths
• Strict but some rules are over the top

Private school

Pros

• Excellent GCSE and A level scores
• Excellent extra-curriculars
• Excellent and varied trips
• Well behaved, polite boys

Cons

• Boys school so limited social opportunities with girls. No contact with girls till 16
• It’s a city school with little greenery
• School finishes at 16:00 but coach gets back at 17:15 and that’s without after-school clubs
• Have to get the coach in the morning too and it leaves at 07:40 so it makes for a very long day
• If he does clubs, they finish at 17:30 but coach gets back at 18:40
• Forced to move?
• Can afford an extended semi in the city centre but it doesn’t have the greenery of our current location and we will lose the catchment of our local primary for younger DC who are due to join in a few years time

What would you do?

Same for my DD who attends a local comp. She loves it and is in no way teased for playing instruments or liking maths and science.

She goes to an after school club every day of the week.

She has local friends, some of whom she walks to school with. And how lovely that she can walk to school too!

If money isn’t a concern then private for sure. Teenagers change fast and can be influenced by peers easily - having friends who have taught at local comprehensive high schools - none of them want to send their kids there if they had a choice. Just the lack of discipline and disruption one or two kids have in the class even if your kid is one that wants to learn. It’s a no brainer if money is not a concern

The comp is not selective so her child (assuming he got a place at the selective private) is likely to be within that top 20%, and should therefore come out with exactly the same grades as if he’d gone to the independent.

That's a big assumption. You surely don't think grades are purely based on a student's intelligence and have nothing to do with the quality of teaching, class sizes, the speed/level a class is taught at based on the ability of the other students in the class etc? Lots of state schools can't even reliably recruit enough qualified teachers in some subjects at the moment. Classes end up just being supervised by unqualified cover teachers. Even GCSE classes sometimes.

“All the kids have given up sports”

Gosh if I said similar about “all the private school children” I would be jumped on 🙄🙄. What utter nonsense. Our state school
children have all played sport and not had boyfriends. They socialise with state and private pupils and I can assure you the teens from the two sectors are utterly interchangeable.

I went to a private school on an assisted place. Whilst the atmosphere was calm and rather enjoyably quaint, the teaching was nothing to write home about, and in some cases, abysmal. Children were expected to have private tuition if they were falling behind... even when it's the fault of the shoddy teaching.

I was behind in French bc I'd transferred from a different school and the teacher was horrible to me. Didn't help me at all, just picked on me in class and told me to concentrate.

I remember Spanish being offered for the first time at the school and the teacher could barely speak it- apparently she was doing gcse Spanish at the same as teaching it... (she got away with it because she taught French and German at the school).

Yes but 20% of the kids at this school get top grades - that is a large percentage (above the National average) and I’d be willing to put good money on the OP‘s son who is (a) bright, (b) affluent, with ability to afford private tuition if need be, and (c) has engaged supportive parents making it into that top 20%. Indeed, it would be odd if he didn’t.

Possible, of course, if he went totally off the rails, but that could happen at any school.

I went to a selective state around a 45 min coach journey away which had a fairly large catchment area. The journey didn’t massively bother me but the distance and catchment meant I had friends who all lived quite far from me. My parents spent a lot of my school days driving me around to friends houses / parties etc. Not the most important thing I know but just something to consider

my daughter hated sport in primary but loves it at secondary (state) she loves netball and trampolining now.

Looking at the first cons list, you already know the answer OP.

extra curricular may be excellent at state school though. My DD goes to state school and gets:
-trampolining club (free)
-LAMDA drama (free)
-debate club (free)
-writing club (free)
-sax lessons (paid for by me)

there's also football, netball, gymnastics, rugby STEAM, art, skateboarding, dance, SEN homework support, languages etc

I’s always choose state if it’s decent. They need to learn about life as well as studying. As for rough kids, there will be some absolute wankers in private school. Up their own arses and entitled. Mixing with all kinds of kids and both sexes is better for learning about life and developing skills for me.

State school will be a more ‘real’ experience for what life is like afterwards. They will mix with children from a more diverse range of social backgrounds. The class sizes will be bigger and they probably won’t get as good grades, however, being able to mix with people from all walks of life is an important factor of getting ahead in life I would say.

In your case private.

All three of my DC are in private schools - have been since reception.

In the situation you describe I would choose the state. An hour long coach trip twice a day is too much - and it being so far away will be a pain for you to go to sports fixtures / school events / parents evenings etc. expectations of parental involvement are often higher at private schools.

the local school is outstanding with a small catchment - if he’s bright he’ll do fine!

I’d only endure the distance if I felt he was going to struggle academically or get in with a tricky crowd at the local one.

Agree with this. Remember, the results at the highly selective private will be high because it only takes the brightest pupils. And the parents will be almost all heavily invested in their child’s education. I’m not sure what the value add would be ( maybe more school trips and clubs)

take away the education and you’d probably find these kids would do just as well academically at a good state school.

the state school will have more of a mixed bag ( you say you’ve seen some rough kids). So if it’s achieving above average then that’s a good sign.

Well it seems the grad scheme only accepts applicants from state school, so happily it should be easy to swerve a company like this.

If I were you I’d choose the state school. The journey to the private school is too long. What a waste of precious time! Personally, I would never choose a single sex school so that would rule out the private school in question anyway. (An all boys environment does not represent the real world and is not therefore a good preparation for adult life, in my opinion.) If the state school doesn’t work out for some reason you could always move your son private at a later stage. It might be a bad idea to switch to private though because many universities, and maybe even some employers, now actively discriminate against privately educated applicants. Also, private is SO expensive: you will easily be able to pay for all the music lessons, sports coaching, clubs and other extracurricular activities your son would have done at private school - and academic tutors - with the money you save. If you choose state the whole family will have a better quality of life. With supportive parents, and one to one tutors where needed, there will probably be little to no difference in the grades he achieves. In addition, if your son goes private their friends will live miles away which will make any kind of social life much more complicated and they will be much more dependent on you ferrying them around. I think having local friends and the freedom to make their own way to and from school is really important. It is also an advantage to be exposed to all sections of society rather than living in a privileged bubble. He will probably end up more well rounded and resilient at the state school. Finally, if he goes to the state school you don’t have to move house if you don’t want to and your younger children can go to the primary school you like - and these are not insignificant points.

But the standards are not the same. If you want to play top level netball then you need to join a top club, it's full of private school kids. Same with the cricket, hockey...all of it. The standard of the Private school kids is better.

You can't completely match a private school, just not possible plus the attitude of the kids is more focussed towards learning. We have an outstanding comp on our doorstep, it's full of teachers who don't care because they know it's an affluent area and all these kids are having tutoring outside of school, eating into their evenings. I'd rather they have fulfilled school days and after school clubs then chill when they get home.

Btw I went to an inner city comp, my parents were illiterate - I made it to a RG Uni but I still think Private is worth it for my kids.

Buses and coaches are the worst for my travel sickness, and it gets worse when tired. I would choose the local comp on that alone. It is the absolute worst feeling to still be 40 mins from home and not be able to escape, and he'd have to do it every day poor lad. Honestly I would've said private till you said this.

I would not be willing to sit on a coach for an hour each way to get to work, and I certainly wouldn't expect my child to do that for school.
Add up all the hours of his youth that he will be spending on that coach, and then make your decision.

Thank you for all the advice, it’s really really appreciated. Lots of comments to start at the state and go private if something goes wrong which is definitely something we are strongly considering. There is a 13+ and 16+ intake so we could have another stab at this.

To answer some questions…

@Meadowfinch
The state school does offer a visit and a taster day so we will get an idea before we start which will be very useful

@TizerorFizz
All his friends are boys and we don’t really know of families with girls so we wouldn’t be able to easily facilitate socialisation with girls.

There is another private school which is nearer but far less academic and friends have said their kids are coasting there.

Private school has a bit of greenery but pitches are a ten minute coach trip away.

DS might struggle academically. He’s bright but not super bright. This school is very high in the league tables. 90%+ 9-7

He loves his friends but is very adaptable and will probably maintain them, he seems to collect friends easily wherever he goes ie school, Cubs etc.

He loves STEM and DT which is big in the state school. There are admittedly A LOT more clubs in the private though.

He can make friends with the jokers in class, he himself is hardworking and polite but he can be distracted by jokers. We have discounted another state school for lax discipline and rules as we are nervous about low level disruption in class. I think he would appreciate the lack of distraction in a strict school, where the kids have to simply get on with their work.

Thank you for all your questions, helps me figure out my own thoughts on the schools.

@Futurethinking2026
Excellent point. State school sets from day 1 in Maths and Science which I’m very pleased about. Indeed another private school option we looked at but discounted didn’t set in science till year 9 which I felt was too late.

@Quirkycherryblossom
Glad to hear your DS is thriving at private now. He sounds lovely and his bullies are complete losers.

@Madcats
Good point, there is a 13+ intake so we can potentially try again later or possibly defer

Also, you make a good point about extra curriculars being a big part of the school day. If DS comes on the first bus home it seems like he will miss out. Perhaps it makes more sense for him to be doing this at 13 or 16 when he would potentially be more ready…

I don’t want to move, love our current location. DH is more inclined to move however.

@edwinbear
Thank you, need to factor in some of these extra costs also. Definitely leaning towards private sixth form

@Charlotte120221
He has an interview after having taken exam, and usually this progresses to an offer

@SophiaCohle interesting point that state schools have external links to increased opportunities. I have seen that on some of their newsletters.

@Hididi11
Yes the GCSE 9-7 rate is pretty low in my opinion. The area is 35% pupil premium which is huge compared to our state primary which has 5%

@pestothepenguin
DH went to a top boarding school and didn’t buy into a network, he did develop a wonderful array of interests, is highly inteligent and very confident but he grafted and started on a low salary the same as I did from my state comprehensive background so I’m not really sure about the contacts side of things…I guess it depends on the sector you go into

@AllProperTeaIsTheft
This is a very valid point. State school is draconian with rules and is notorious for being extremely strict but you’re right that it doesn’t mean behaviour is genuinely good, it just means kids are forced to toe the line.

@Nomorescreentime
Good point, probably an hour of homework after bussing it home. Do worry he might snap emotionally and not be able to handle such a long day

@Montydone
Good questions. I think he will work hard in a strict school as there will be fewer distractions. He doesn’t have any close female friends and we don’t have girls in our family or extended family so I do think he’ll find it hard to mix with girls. I don’t want him to grow up seeing girls as aliens. I want him to see them as friends or at least as equals.

@Timetoread
Nice point. I should really ask DH to write his pros and cons list for each school too to compare

@HairyToity
I’m very sorry for your loss in early life. I also want the money for the unthinkable. You never know what can happen in life.

@Bestfootfwd
Thank you for your post, I agree with all of your points and my gut instinct is saying state will be better for our entire family

This. I'm not from UK and I never cease to he baffled by the very dramatic claims about state schools. The vast, vast majority of the UK population go through the state system and most UK people I know seem as normal and successful as anyone from any other country. Astonishing, given that they survived the horror of the UK state school. It really seems so silly and detached from reality to write off state schools like that. I didn't go through the UK system, maybe I'm missing something. For what it's worth, the long commute would turn me off. Maybe also the high fees unless it is easily affordable (as in, I don't think the pay off is remotely worth making significant sacrifices, not in a system where most go to state...but if money is no object, then sure, if it suits your child).

My daughter isn't sporty but her best friend is an excellent footballer and plays at a very high level. The state school they attend has an excellent netball and football team, the football team won a national championship last year.

It depends on the school, it depends on the sport.

We signed both teens up to a local club / dance school respectively that they both attended and enjoyed from 12 17. They made outside school friends there. Frankly neither of them are more than competent and never would be but they enjoyed the activities and stayed fit.

Dd1 recently left state school with strings of 8s and 9s, A star A levels and a place at a RG university and a lovely solid group of friends for life. I genuinely don’t see what we would have got from paying hundreds of thousands.

This is exactly our situation. Except DD is officially "gifted" (1-2%).

We have decided on state. The girls school has issues around eating disorders and can be very toxic too. I also think DD would burn out doing such long days plus homework on top. She currently plays 4 instruments and practice time would be a problem. The burnout for me is the key issue here. The streamed top set do achieve 9s. I would look less at the overall grades and more at the top set grades only.

That said, if your child has to work hard / probably exceeding but closer to average than gifted, I'd be inclined to go private. These are the kids that get lost in a state system IMO.