To choose the local state comp over the high achieving private boys school?

[Seaofcake]

We have narrowed down our secondary school choices to two options and DH and I disagree about which one is best. DH is willing to pay for private and although it wouldn’t by any means be a drop in the ocean, we could do it.

We’ve gone round in circles with this decision. My pros and cons are below. Any advice would really be welcome.

State comp

Pros

• Mixed sex
• 10 minute drive in rush hour. He could walk or catch the bus eventually.
• Ofsted report is outstanding in all areas
• Enrichment programme
• Strict on behaviour
• 1.5 mile catchment, local kids
• Get to stay in area and younger DC can go to primary when ready.

Cons

• Less chance for trips and opportunities, will need to fight for them
• Some kids look rough when we’ve hung around during end of school day (but there is a good number of polite, decent kids too; it’s just very varied)
• Only 20% scored above 7 in English and Maths
• Strict but some rules are over the top

Private school

Pros

• Excellent GCSE and A level scores
• Excellent extra-curriculars
• Excellent and varied trips
• Well behaved, polite boys

Cons

• Boys school so limited social opportunities with girls. No contact with girls till 16
• It’s a city school with little greenery
• School finishes at 16:00 but coach gets back at 17:15 and that’s without after-school clubs
• Have to get the coach in the morning too and it leaves at 07:40 so it makes for a very long day
• If he does clubs, they finish at 17:30 but coach gets back at 18:40
• Forced to move?
• Can afford an extended semi in the city centre but it doesn’t have the greenery of our current location and we will lose the catchment of our local primary for younger DC who are due to join in a few years time

What would you do?

@harriethoyle
Some years ago now, I had input into my company’s graduate recruitment. We chose accomplished state school pupils over identical private every time

I thought most companies now did blind recruitment but maybe this was before that started.
When you say you chose ‘accomplished state school pupils over identical private’ does that mean identical degrees?

the world is changing - diversity is becoming valued more and more over privilege… our new grad scheme ONLY accepts candidates from state schools ( from 4th grade/year 5 as a minimum).
Your DS is likely to have a much richer, more rounded experience in state school than being in a school full of kids from the same background/ class/money…

Yes in our recruitment… because that state school girl with the 2:1 is much more likely to have worked harder for it than the privately educated girl with the 2:1 … and when they have similar grades, similar degree it doesn’t matter if they can ski or did an internship at mummy or daddy’s company, they’re going to have to draft, get on with all sorts of clients ( most of whom will NOT be posh) - we’ll take the smart, state educated girl who spent the holidays working in Burger King or the local cafe over anyone who did a gap year building wells somewhere…

Since your DH prefers private, I would go and visit both to get a gut feel then make a decision. It does sound like the private school looks better other than the commute.

is the coach really one hour though. My DS friends goes to private school via school coach and whilst on paper it is one hour, it is typically 1.5 hours after you add in stops and traffic to pick up everyone en route.

similar degree it doesn’t matter if they can ski or did an internship at mummy or daddy’s company

lookslikemeemaw do you warn prospective job candidates of this so they don’t waste their time applying?
It sounds like anyone remotely posh who might slip through the anti private school net would have a pretty horrible time working at your company since you make your views about them pretty clear.

“Excellent GCSE and A level scores” vs only 20% 7 or above.

Assuming DS wasn’t strongly against it, I would choose private in this instance. If you can comfortable afford it + VAT then that first sentence is all I’d need to know honestly. A decent education offers a lifetime of opportunity.

Our options are potentially similar but we've ruled out the private route.

DS has a very tight friendship groups which he's had since nursery and I honestly don't think it's likely to change going into high school. He makes friends easily but despite that I do think the security of staying with his friends is important and something money can't buy. In the end we think this is more valuable than anything a private school could offer.

Plus travel to and from private school would reduce other opportunities we can make available to him.

DS is bright and likely to do fine anywhere he goes. If anything he will benefit from being around kids who aren't as well off rather than living in a total bubble.

I’d narrow it down to extra curricular.

Does you son like sports or music/art …
If the private school has lots of opportunities for extra curricular and he’s going to make use of them that is a big factor.
We had a similar situation and went state. The extra curricular on the town is amazing but we are always travelling and dropping the kids off at clubs all over town. Sometimes I wish I’d just gone private and had a one stop shop.
However I think my kids will get similar grades as if they’d gone to private. So state is great value for money !

Hi OP - you say only 20% at the state option achieve grades 7-9 at GCSE. What is the percentage at the independent?

Eg. if it's 30% 7-9 at the independent, probably wouldn't bother. But if it's something like 90% 7-9 at the independent, that's obviously a very different matter!

I've not read all the comments but have you missed this

Private you are buying in to network that cannot be rivalled in state.

I'd be interested to know where you got the information you listed about what each of the schools is like. Hearsay? School website? Open Day? Friends with dc currently at the schools?

Obviously schools can't fake Ofsted reports or exam results, but I would take what they say about behaviour with a pinch of salt. No school will say 'We are lax on behaviour' or 'behaviour is poor at this school'. The state school might have a strict behaviour policy, but that doesn't necessarily mean there isn't lots of bad behaviour.

As a teacher, and with bitter experience of my choice of schools for my own dc, I'd rather send my child to a school that didn't actually need draconian discipline methods because there was just a culture of good behaviour. In reality, this is to do with the intake, not the rules. I now teach at a school where behaviour is great.

Neither sound like a bad choice, OP - a nice problem to have :) I’d just go and look around both, make the journey from both at the times he’d be travelling, to help make an informed decision. How much homework do the private school give - will he be pressured for time after bussing home? Some people don’t find that an important factor, others do. Do you really have an appetite to move home? Only you and your family can answer these questions. Sounds like he’ll do well wherever he ends up.

This sounds like a great state school, with an outstanding ofsted.
Where does your DS want to go?
I went to a good state school and got really good GCSEs (all As A*s) as did my friendship group and have a PhD now; a state educated family member is at Oxford uni now. It depends on your DS’s character - do you think he needs a particular environment in order to meet his potential? How do you think he will navigate socially in a single sex setting? Does he have close female friends and family members?
Having gone mixed sex, I always appreciated the boys being around - I was bullied and they were mich kinder to me than girls. Also I learnt loads about talking to and navigating the opposite sex which some private and grammar educated friends say they really missed.
In my job now I am really pleased that I mixed growing up with individuals from lots of different backgrounds; different financial situations, I think it really helped me understand a lot about our community. And in fact a number of the most interesting and clever kids at my school I don’t think would have had the finances to go private.
I want this for my kids and if we have an outstanding state school near us then I will definitely be sending my kids there.

This is a really interesting post - do you mean like buying into privilege in a sense?

My private school regret is that DD can’t now have a contextual university offer. She’s at a state college but you need to have gone to a state secondary as well. I think she’s probably the only student in her year at her college that won’t get a contextual offer.

If he's bright I'd choose state, as he'll do well there and be in that top 20%. As it's not selective they'll have all abilities entering GCSE, so their results can't be compared with a selective private school.

If he has additional needs I'd choose private as they will cater for him better.

I cal bullshit on the 'we only recruit state school'. Aside from being discrimination, that your HR department would never let you get away with, I do grad recruitment and is largely institution blind these days.

I don't know what I would do but you list more pros than cons for the state and more cons than pros for the private, so on the basis of quantity of pros/cons you have given yourself the answer. If some weigh more than others is another matter and also is you husband's list the same?

The private school sounds like a lot more work for your DS and you as a whole family! Whereas the state option sounds good and easy. I would definitely at least try the state option first, move him in year 9 if he doesn’t thrive. Unis and the Government appear anti private school so why work harder and put yourselves through that? It’s better and cheaper to just get tutors if you need to.

I would say Private. Hear me out, we have an outstanding comp near us but all the kids have given up sport (in the main). It's cooler to have extensions than play netball, it's cooler to have a boyfriend than focus on an instrument, having done outstanding state primary, considered the outstanding comp, we went private, the differences in kids and their focus from state to private is so very different.

We went state. I felt my child would fit in better, and be happier. So far no regrets, private would have been a stress. In the back of my mind my dad died when I was 13, and I wanted finances to be secure above anything else.

Secondly two warnings:

Fees have gone up ridiculously since just after Covid I'm talking 8% rises year on year.

Calculate VAT. It will happen.

Finally project the 8% fee rises into the future plus the VAT.

Oh finally finally - instrument lessons (c£300 per term per instrument) and finally finally the trips and the extra curricular outside of school. All the kids will do netball, cricket, hockey, athletics outside of school as well as in school.

Private. It's a no brainer for me.

Is it though?

If the private is selective at 11 then 90% could even be a low figure.

The comp is not selective so her child (assuming he got a place at the selective private) is likely to be within that top 20%, and should therefore come out with exactly the same grades as if he’d gone to the independent.

Definitely private but that’s based on my personal experience with a crappy local state school plus seeing the opportunities / connections my kids have had having gone through private.