Should I return to relationship with Ex-DP?

[3LemonsAndLime]

I am (nervously!) back for more advice. Last time posting about this issue was a bit challenging, but there was some very helpful perspectives and advice among the responses, so I am returning for further advice.

My first thread is here, for background: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5057874-aibu-to-not-fund-ex-partners-children

Since then, things have moved on a bit. Ex-DP’s ex-wife asked to have the bedroom furniture from the children’s rooms at my house, I assumed to upgrade the furniture at her home or to go to Ex-DP’s new place or storage, depending on his ultimate plans. I agreed and she came to collect it. It turns out she wanted it to sell, with the money going to fund the trip one of their children was going on. I felt a bit funny on hearing that news, but ultimately I wanted the furniture gone and realise with that comes not having a say in how the next person chooses to use it.

I also ended up writing a goodbye card to each of the children with a generous gift voucher in each - one for books (as we shared a love of reading and used to go to bookstores and the library together) and the other for lessons/paraphernalia in the sport they do. I told ex-DP I was going to do this, and gave them to ex-DP’s ex-wife when she came to collect the furniture.

Recently (so about 4 months after all this), I was watching my nieces play sport for their school team with my sister and ex-DP was there watching one DC also play (different teams, different ages, they don’t usually play at the same time, this was an unusual schedule change). We had a mutual sideline, so he came over and spoke to us and we watch the games side by side. At the conclusion of the game his DC came over, said hello and were happy to see me. This was brief, as we all needed to leave and clear the field for the next set of games.

Since then, I ran into Ex-DP again at a mutual friend’s birthday drinks, and we chatted. He asked me about resuming the relationship, or to start again by dating and seeing how things go. He says it could be like the first 2 years, where we didn’t live together and the children didn’t live here, but we dated, spent nights at each others homes, and had weekend and holidays away. His contact with the children would be during his own time, and he says we could look long term at re-introducing things, if we both wanted too, but the important thing would be to focus on us right now and not throw away that, due to some difficult teenage years. He asked to meet for coffee this week to discuss it further.

I’m unsure whether to meet again or what to do. Turning it over in my mind, the idea has some merit. I miss him, and our relationship. It is not easy to find someone you get on with so well, and who can support themselves (yes, I do earn a considerable amount more than him, but he still earns well above a average). However it’s not lost on me that he has not found his own accommodation and is still living with his parents. So I feel like this means whilst any dates or meals or activities ‘out’ would be out and about, any time ‘at home’ (dinners, nights in, weekends etc) would be spent at my home, not his. We have too much history to spend months in the activities ‘out’ dating stage for long, it feels like he would effectively be stealthily moving back in, albeit, spending time back at his parents with the children or when needed.

He absolutely denies this, and says it would be dating, weekends away and only moving at a pace we are both comfortable with. He said he wants to listen to me, and work through it, as we should have done originally.

I’m not sure what to think. I miss him. But the end was so unpleasant, and I’m not sure if he means it, or if this is just softening me up? Or even if what he is suggesting would work or be fair to him and the children.

I’d appreciate thoughts, as I can’t view this very objectively right now.

Ps if you've already decided you want to give it a go you do t need anyone's permission!

He's an Ex for a reason. Keep it that way.

Don’t be blind to what you’re doing because of loneliness.

My suggestion? Grieve for this one and I really do mean that, time and space. Then dip your toe into the pool of dating, get excited about it, see who’s out there.

If you return to this guy you’ll have your comfortable relationship alongside a welter of other issues which will keep bursting through.

No…..I am genuinely undecided. I mentioned my concerns about him not finding his own accomodation yet, and it also leaves a bit of a sour taste in my mouth that the two times I have seen him were by chance. It’s not like he missed me so much he reached out to arrange a meet (although he has done now). Instead it feels like he may have seen me and the thought occurred to him then to try and persuade me to give it another go.

Of course, that could be unfair. He could have wanted to reach out and been waiting for a better time, or when he had his own place, but when opportunity presented itself, he made the most of it.

OP you didn't put him in a precarious financial position, he did that to himself and if anything you gave him the opportunity to save money which he didn't.

He is still lounging at his parents place.

You mentioned in reply to me the relief you felt when it was over, hold on to that thought.

I do understand the value of a true partnership, him cooking you dinner and buying you flowers isn't it.

I was a lone parent for many years, still am, but I do have a partner I see most weekends, we have been together 5 years but we don't live together. This arrangement works for me. If you are determined to give it a go keep it casual, but honestly I think your boundaries are low right now. Feeling lonely can do that.

Don't go back there OP, this will be a slippery slope. He says that you will just work on your relationship, the kids won't be involved, but I guarantee within 12 months it'll be 'the kids would love to see you', 'could you possibly pick DC up?', 'let's go do X as a family', and then 'we are a package deal' and he'll be expecting them to move in again. Just don't do it.

I'd say something if he had bothered to secure appropriate accommodation in the last 6 months that he could parent his children in, but he's still at home with his parents! He will be expecting to move him and his children back into your home before you know it.

And don't forget how it ended, don't forget him turning up early, trying to manipulate you by bringing the children, having them send you video apologies, moaning about how youve ruined his financial plans and the children's future plans, and worst of all, asking to be paid off in a lump sum when you ended the relationship, even though he had ample opportunity to build a nest egg with you paying the vast majority of the bills.

I know you're lonely, but you're worth so much more than this. You sound like such an incredible woman, you have great family and friends around you, you do not need this in your life x

Confused about the houses and vouchers and furniture but I think what you are saying is what ge us suggesting and how it would really work don't add up/ he's not living independently at present so it feels weighted onto your responsibility and sort of taking him on again.

I thought that the ending was harsh on the children and didn't agree with you not helping with the cost of the trip, as promised. There was a level of the going got tough (with tweens) as it often is. Stepfathers (and their wider family) are expected to hang on in there, on here, but not stepmothers. I commented on your other thread.
I agree that you shouldn't marry him, or combine finances again. I don't know how you'd make it work tbh. Think carefully how you view his children, because it would be very unfair on them. I'm not sure why you are turning up to events, when you allowed yourself to be spurred on, on here, to see yourself as having no commitment towards them. It's never going to be just the two of you and any woman who was getting offered by a man, what you want, would be told that it's unworkable and letting her children down.

I remember your original post. He treated you outrageously and I don't think it's a good idea to give him the opportunity to do that again. Fast forward six months and he will move back in and it will all happen all over again. He likes the lifestyle you provide, in essence you subsidised him first time round giving him more disposable income to spend on his children. He was able to "spend" to the tune of someone with a much higher salary than he has because of your income. You didn't mind first time round but now you know much more about him. He was horrible to you. Why on earth would you even consider him?
Edited to say don't forget he asked you to pay him off, in lieu of notice. Absolutely vile behaviour.

Have only read OP posts so appreciate others have likely suggested this but can you make getting his own place a condition of your trying again? No dates, nothing, until he’s properly installed somewhere permanent.

I think how seriously he takes this request will tell you a lot.

I would say don't go there, nothing will change as after 6months he's still living with his parents. If he wanted to, he could have found somewhere to live that could also accommodate his children overnight. I agree that they see you as a cash cow. Unless you stand firm, he will just assume he's moving back in with you with his children.

Tbh I would say to him 'until you've got a place of your own with rooms for your children, then I'm not prepared to consider getting back together'.

But she didn't promise to help with the cost of the trip. The father and mother were to pay for the trip, with the extra money the father was saving as a result of OP paying the vast majority of the bills. He chose not the save his money when he could have and should have been doing so.

And OP is turning up to events to support her DNiece/DNephew. It just so happened he was there with his DC on the same pitch which she has said is highly unusual.

No

I think this makes sense

Just to be clear you have made a lot of incorrect statements in your post, and then seem to be using them to draw negative conclusions about me. I accept things didn’t end well for the children, but I think half of the blame for that needs to go to Ex-DP, as his actions didn’t help shield them from it.

in relation to things you have wrong -

• As in the previous thread, I never agreed to fund the trip. The child going on the trip was discussed between Ex-DP and his Ex-wife. I wasn’t aware of the cost or the payment due dates, nor asked to pay anything at the time. I was told ‘XX is going on a trip to Italy with the school” and I thought, how nice, I love Italy, what a great trip and didn’t think anything else of it. I assumed they could afford it as they would be paying for it.
• At the time we were together, I did not consider marriage an option, mainly due to the legal position in respect of finances and me wanting clarity over what I owned whilst the relationship was in it’s first few years, and as he had children.
• Again, we never combined finances, and would not be doing so “again” for the same reasons as above. As in my previous thread, I was very clear to him as to my financial position and his, and he knew he was not paying rent/board, or contributing to any home maintenance or the cleaner or housekeeping etc and that I bought and replaced all appliances and furniture in order to make the ownership position clear (ie that it was mine). Whilst this disadvantaged him, he also benefitted when he moved in with me by having none of these costs in his life and it increasing his disposable income hugely.
• Finally, I did not turn up to his children’s events. My nieces play the same sport as his daughter, and on Saturdays our areas has games for all the teams in the areas at the same courts, all day starting on the hour. As they are different ages, their games are at different times, separated by a few hours. When I turned up to watch my nieces play at the same time (which I do every week) I had no idea his daughter’s game had been moved to that time. If anything, he would have known I would be there as it was my nieces regular time, not his daughters.

I remember your previous thread and just reread all of your posts on it. Please please please do not go back! I want to shake you for even considering it, you deserve so much better. I imagine your sister will say the same, please listen to her. There are better men out there and you won’t meet them if you allow yourself to waste more of your precious time on this man who doesn’t have your best interests at heart and wants to use you. Please love, don’t do it.

Don't be a mug.

This is called hoovering.

He still lives with mummy and daddy = he's dropped down in status and comfort.

You represent a step back up.

Make no mistake - He. Will. Move. In.

There's billions of them out there. Find a better one.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/here-there-and-everywhere/202209/7-facts-know-about-narcissistic-hoovering

I remember your last post. I felt like him and his ex were trying to shake you down, emotionally manipulate youand extort money out of you.

You were a meal ticket. He lived rent free, he paid minimal expenses. I don't think you left him vulnerable. You allowed him to have minimal expenses with a home at his disposal not only for him but also for his children. He was able to save a significant amount of money living with you but chose to spend it instead.

If he wants to get together because he genuinely loves you then he needs to be a fully functioning adult. He needs to house himself and his children. He needs to be totally independent of you and not reliant on your financial support. You are not an ATM.

Personally, I wouldn't go back. The behaviour at the end of the relationship showed clearly what you meant to him. Money. He wasn't sad about the relationship ending. He was worried about losing his free ride and he wanted more money (that he wasn't entitled to) off of you. It was a shake down. I think it told you everything you need to know.

I know you're lonely but I think you can do better.

No one more in love than a man wanting accommodation.

It’s a hard one. I read your previous thread. He was in the wrong by just accepting his children’s rude behaviour as something teens do and not fully challenging it. At the same time, teens are challenging and just because you feel like driving away one moment doesn’t mean that it’s all terrible. I got the sense that maybe you had rose tinted glasses about what it was going to be like with the kids, as you had gone to a lot of effort to make things nice and were disappointed that you didn’t get appreciation in return when kids aren’t normally that grateful for stuff. Your reaction to kick them all out straightaway was also fairly extreme but it was a risk he took by moving in there with no financial security. I would imagine though that the incident might have clouded how his children view you and they might not be entirely happy about you and their dad getting back together.

The answer if you reconcile must be that you agree not to live together - it just doesn’t work. So he needs his own house for himself and the kids and you keep yours. When the kids are grownups you can live together if you want to.

@Ponoka7 ’s post has made me find my anger about this. I bought the children all new furniture and bedding for their rooms here, had them painted in the colour of their choosing as a welcome present. I bought them books and shoes and treats here and there and paid for holidays. I also replaced my television and a window when one of them threw a glass at it/that direction, as they didn’t want to turn the television off and sit at the table when their father called them for their grandfather’s birthday dinner (Ex-DH’s father). I didn’t want to share their behaviour (and won’t add anymore) as I want them to get through these years and grow into lovely, confident, young adults, but @Ponoka7 you don’t know the half of it, and clearly haven’t even read my posts properly before drawing incorrect conclusions that paint me in a bad light.

However it’s not lost on me that he has not found his own accommodation and is still living with his parents

And there we have it.

OP I've just read your first thread.

Do not let this man inveigle himself back into your life.

My jaw dropped when I saw that his ex-wife had sold the bedroom furniture from your house.

I mean, they're all a bunch of freeloaders, willing and able to use you as their personal ATM.

Bringing his children to see you (twice!) when you broke up six months ago, despite your saying he was not to, just demonstrates his ability to try to manipulate situations to his own pecuniary advantage.

Just no.

However much you miss the good things about the relationship, don't be sucked back in FGS.

I am 100% sure that your sister will say the same when you ask her.

I really wouldn't do this, especially as you seem to still feel some guilt about not helping him financially when you asked him to leave. I think this does leave you vulnerable. If you do want to give things another try, then agree with others, wait until he is living as an independent adult with his own place so you can date without the pressure/risk of him moving back in by default.

OP this has got absolute disaster written all over it. Where are your standards?

This man mugged you off. The fact that he did some nice and considerate things as well, does not change that fact.

It is his own fault that he didn't build assets. Him living with you saved him thousands that he would have otherwise paid in rent. Notice how he's still ensconced with Mummy and Daddy? Why hasn't he sorted his own accommodation out - it's been six months? It was very telling in your last thread that he was very concerned about moving out because he wasn't happy about the standard of accommodation he would be able to afford on his own.

You need to remind yourself of how badly he behaved when you split up -

Your sister told you she'd been concerned for a while that he was relying on your money to fund his kids' lifestyle, inflating it to a level he would never be able to sustain without you. Your sister was very clear you should not make any payments to your ex, as he'd already benefited significantly from being with you.

He was determined to bring his kids round when he was collecting his things, as he wanted a sit down conversation in front of them about the break-up. You told your ex that your sister would be at the house to manage him collecting his things, and that it was not appropriate to bring the kids. He turned up an hour early to try and catch you anyway - and brought his kids!!

You agreed to his request to meet for a final chat over coffee. Your sister wanted to come with you to keep an eye out - you didn't feel it was necessary, but she came along and it was lucky, as your ex turned up with his kids. Your sister was able to take them off for a distraction - at which point your ex tried to inveigle his way back into your home, even by offering not to have his children come over. When it became clear you weren't going to go for it, he asked you for a lump sum of money "in lieu of notice"!!

He's desperate to get his cushy lifestyle back. He wants a comfy time back in your lovely home where everything's paid for him, and you are on tap to provide companionship, sex and babysitting for his children. Oh and to finance his children's school trips, tutoring, expensive hobbies and sports. You would be an absolute fool to give this man another second of your time.

He's an adult and needs to be responsible for his own financial position and finding suitable accommodation. You saying that providing him free accommodation disadvantaged him is one of the most bat-shit things I've ever read. After two years he's still living with his parents - that's pathetic and nothing to do with you.