To think the system’s set up so the rich get richer and the poor get screwed?

[ThatGreenBear]

I’ve been thinking a lot lately about how society is structured, and it feels like no matter how hard some people work, they’re always struggling, while others just seem to get wealthier with minimal effort. Whether it’s the tax system, housing market, or even access to education and opportunities, everything seems stacked in favor of those who already have money and power.

AIBU to think that the system is rigged to keep the wealthy at the top while making it incredibly hard for the rest of us to get ahead? Or is this just how life works and we should all just accept it? I’d love to hear others’ thoughts on whether the playing field is as unfair as it seems, or if it’s possible for anyone to get ahead with enough hard work.

Yes that's what capitalism is.

You've summed up all my thoughts lately into this post
I can't get over how unfair life can be.. and how it could be totally different

Yep.

No need for sarcasm and such a condescending tone. Relax

Pointless comment.

I think the type of thinking you’re talking about is what holds people back. There are always people who for whatever reason just keep chipping away and reinvesting their ‘wealth’. I saw a man interviewed today who described himself as very working class he had no privilege. He described going into charity shops and buying certain items then selling them on at a profit, he’s now a very successful businessman. Just look at Alan Sugar, he came from absolutely nothing. I recall my elder son wanting a nice watch when he was at secondary school so he bought sweets and took them into school to sell at a small profit. He bought his watch. I think the biggest advantage some people have is that they are bought up to believe that with determination and hard work they can succeed and sadly it seems some people don’t get this message.

Yes and no.

The U.K. is less rigged than some places.

We do have largely free state education which is mostly reasonable.

The NHS has problems but you don't have your have money to get treated (unlike America).

Why do you think “they get rich with minimal effort”?
Everyone I know who is rich and successful has worked really hard to get there. And I know that saying “worked hard” in mumsnet speak seems to translate that people on lower wager don’t work hard.
But to get rich, people need to work a 70 hour week and probably miss out on their children's younger years, and take risks. People make decisions about how their direction in life is.
Money doesn’t just land on peoples laps, active decisions are made to get it

My DH is an example of social mobility. Mum was a cleaner and dad a manual worker in various jobs. He had an assisted place from the late 1980s which enabled him to go to private school for free. Labour abolished assisted places as soon as they took office in 1997.

I would say that now that we are in 2024, education at every level from baby to A level is available for free on YouTube. My DC used it extensively on a daily basis, especially for the sciences. The education is there if you want it. Easily enough for top grades at GCSE. But then, if you want to go to uni, you have to pay the tuition fees that Labour also introduced in the late 90s.

Labour claims to want working people to do well, but seems to introduce policies that make it more difficult.

I think the type of thinking you're demonstrating is why they get away with it.

This sort of self-made person relies on noone else doing what they're doing. If everyone did then they couldn't make money from it.

You also don't see the ones that fail and fall further into poverty (since most types of investment are gambles and if you can't afford to lose then youre in trouble when you do).

But there are enough, and they're visible enough so we can point and say "look the system works - the proles are just too lazy".

I applaud self made hard workers of all types. I also applaud the hard workers who'll never get much past hand to mouth. Their work is valuable too.

There are a lot of wealthy people who don't work especially hard at all. That's the real trick - can you see how they do it?

How rich do people want to be? The massive yachts and expensive cars have never really done it for me. Having enough to live on, a warm house, and no debt has felt good, when I look back to the really hard times we had as a young family. DC have taken it a step further, and are higher rate taxpayers, with fairly affluent lifestyles. The DGC have been encouraged to have aspirations. They’re bright, already show a work ethic, and should do ok.

We are the first generation mainly be homeowners, even our modest home will mean some inheritance down the line, and that’s multiplied throughout many families who started with nought.

Exactly.

Presumably you understand about higher rate taxation and the fact there is a budget coming up

@smallchange , and there’s another lie you can be very successful doing what others do. Yes there are risks and they are probably what keep many from doing well for themselves. It’s not ‘lazy’ to be risk adverse but equally it’s plain wrong to insist that only those with privilege can do well. Some will fail and give up and some will fail and dust themselves off and try again. Some people have a successful mindset and others want to avoid risk and have less responsibility for themselves. That’s ok, we’re all different but the opportunities and success is there for those who are prepared to do what it takes to grasp it.

Have you played monopoly? The game is designed to demonstrate this phenomenon.

My parents came here to make a better life for their kids. Worked 7 days a week. They prioritised our education though we still had to work in the family business throughout school. I am now in a high paying job - not rich but comfortable. There are opportunities for anyone who is willing to work hard.

It’s always been that way, capitalist society that we’re all a part of if we stay in the UK, can’t beat the system, the system has us beat

Have you only just realised this?

It is becoming more about what your parents have eg whether they are homeowners & if you inherit rather than your job/income which is not progressive. Education is free but living near the best schools often comes at a price imo.

Snap! I'm a professional and most of my colleagues had parents who were manual workers in the 1970s but benefitted from scholarships/ assisted places/ grammar schools - first in the family to university.

Their children may not be privately educated but they have benefited from their parents drive , learned from their careers and in their early 20s are out achieving them - from factory worker to the top 0.5% of earners in 2 generations- I accept for my colleagues to achieve what they have they needed determination and academic abilities but I celebrate their children's successes

Agree with this and see this in my second generation immigrant peers

I refer you to the entirety of human history (including socialist and communist systems)

in the west we are living in historically unprecedented times of equality - especially for women

there is no other time when women as a class have had the economic, political and social freedom they have now in liberal western societies.

which does not of course mean that there are not still profound and significant inequalities

there is much work to be done - but history shows that this is a huge shift in society

I think people that think like that OP are naturally poorer. They give up. I think what makes a difference is knowing that struggles CAN be overcome. You can make whatever you want of your life.

Key things that make the difference are:

understanding the importance of education. Study hard army school to get good qualifications to get into a good Uni to get a good degree and a good job. People that mess around at school will struggle to have fulfilling lives.

Know what the ‘good’ jobs are, either by salary, or work life balance, or job satisfaction. No point doing English lit at uni if you want to earn hundreds of thousands. Do economics or computer science instead.

Don’t go around with a massive chip on your shoulder about being working class and the world conspiring against you. If you go around thinking the world is against you people might start thinking subliminally that there’s a reason why you are a loser, and that reputation is hard to shift.

Smile, be cheery, be positive and people will want to help you succeed. Be miserable and whiney and people won’t. It’s human nature.

Same here, children of manual workers/immigrants whose futures were transformed by private school scholarships and then Oxbridge. It’s true we have been lucky too (eg staying in relatively good health) but I’ll always be thankful for the opportunities we had to change our lives.

100% this. It's a feature of capitalism, not a bug.