To think the system’s set up so the rich get richer and the poor get screwed?

[ThatGreenBear]

I’ve been thinking a lot lately about how society is structured, and it feels like no matter how hard some people work, they’re always struggling, while others just seem to get wealthier with minimal effort. Whether it’s the tax system, housing market, or even access to education and opportunities, everything seems stacked in favor of those who already have money and power.

AIBU to think that the system is rigged to keep the wealthy at the top while making it incredibly hard for the rest of us to get ahead? Or is this just how life works and we should all just accept it? I’d love to hear others’ thoughts on whether the playing field is as unfair as it seems, or if it’s possible for anyone to get ahead with enough hard work.

You are deluded.

The wealthy are fleeing the UK. Whilst asylum seekers are flocking here for benefits. The UK works pretty well for people at the bottom based on how many low earners are picking the UK.

Institute for Fiscal Studies has observed that UK higher earners pay the highest rates of tax in Western Europe whilst low and average income households pay the lowest rates of tax of almost any major economy. Dan Neidle a socialist leaning tax lawyer who many people like to quote says this situation is an embarrassment to both Labour and the Conservatives because the Conservatives have comparatively shafted the wealthy which is normally Labours job.

Please look at the tax rates and thresholds in Belgium, France, Italy, Spain and Portugal - average income and low paid do very well in the UK compared to other countries.

The problem with the UK is how expensive it is compared to everywhere else.

Well what benefits does capitalism give the people that could make different choices if they wanted too? Would you have everything you own in your house holidays, gadgets without capitalism

What different choices could people make in their own lives using the brains they have to improve their own lives? Governments and society can only keep on being blamed for so much

What improvements could we make for our children that is in our control?

The capitalist system works to impoverish as many people as it possibly can, leaving fewer and fewer to benefit from the system.

Anyone who blindly supports capitalism is supporting the destitution of their own children.

@ThatGreenBear So is your answer everyone should be equal? That hasn't worked and never will do.

This George Carlin clip on YouTube sums it up perfectly, it’s American centric but the premise is the same. It’s a big club, and we ain’t in it.

I was being neither one.

Agree to an extent but how do you know what the 'good' jobs are if you come from a family that's never had good jobs and noone is around to teach you? If you've got switched on parents that's most of the battle won. I didn't and feel that I could have got a lot further in life had I come from an educated professional family, and not somehow miraculously been the very bright child of an ex convict and a woman with special needs. You don't know what you don't know, and by the time I knew I was in my forties......

What!! That’s a hot take.

It's not just capitalism but specifically late stage capitalism, which is where western economies are now, coupled with the remnants of feudalism that we have in the UK. That's what's tying up all the wealth and assets.

We should have chopped off more heads when we had the chance or, at the very least, we shouldn't have interfered in the Russian Civil War. Alas, we got it all wrong and here we are, set to be entirely overtaken by emerging economies within the next couple of generations and with everything at the top already allocated and sewn up.

No point doing English lit at uni if you want to earn hundreds of thousands

I read English lit and whilst not in the hundreds of thousands I definitely earn over a hundred thousand!

I think your life is the choices you make. Choose to work hard on your education, get the best job you can get, save as much money as you can early and use that money to make money.

I was pretty average at education but I know I didn't put that much effort in but despite this had a well paid job at one point. I have loads of holiday memories and posh meals inside of me but not much in the bank. I chose to squander my opportunities to get richer.

Capitalism rewards those with capital. It is unfair.

Education, hard work and resilience is the route out of poverty. Appreciate not everyone is able to fully exploit their opportunities. If the parents start the process of climbing up, the children can take it further. That is why immigrants tend to do better - it is grit and tenacity to move towards a better life.

There are always outliers, but look at the average wage of an economics graduate compared to the average wage of an English lit graduate. But to some people salary is not as important as other things and that’s fine (as long as you don’t complain about being skint the whole time).

Totally agree with this point. A lot of it is down to the parent’s knowledge and also sometimes attitude.

I remember watching a documentary about a teen who’s mother was an alcoholic, kept being evicted for anti social behaviour, they were living in temporary accommodation and whenever the girl tried to study for her GCSEs her mum would complain that she was being boring! There is practically nothing that poor girl could do to compete with others with schoolwork.

The system doesn't work if the vast majority of people in a society have high disposable income because it would send inflation into an ever increasing spiral. So yes you "have to" keep some people poor.

Also, as an individual, once you have more money than average it's a lot easier to make money from that money. But getting into that situation and then knowing how to invest your money when you're in it is incredibly difficult without help from parents. I made my own money but my parents were poor and so I have no clue how to invest it, and I don't trust financial people to accurately advise me.

Most people are looking at money as an extension of the pocket money they had as a kid - how much they have to spend. Rather than focusing on how much they can make. Discounts are a big part of that, because there's always a very low ceiling on how much you can save on something, yet people fixate on it. I would always rather focus on how I can make money for an expensive holiday or car and be happy because I've achieved those things, than celebrating because I got a Domino's pizza a bit cheaper.

Definitely. Half of England is owned by less than 1% of the population. Money begets money. Compound interest rewards the rich with no effort on their part and penalises the poor every time they borrow money, whether it’s for a mortgage, buying a car on hire purchase or taking out a payday loan to meet an unexpected expense. And if you rent instead of taking out a mortgage? You’ll probably end up buying your landlord a house.

What pisses me off the most about it is charactising the poor as lazy and the rich as hard working. What a lie!

This is true. So mixing with peers at school could help; teachers are a source of information and the Internet. The Internet democratises information and may well be shown to bridge the gap in the next generation. It is certainly easiest if these things are shown and modelled at home

Don't forget the North-South divide too.

Not only can those in the South pass on more advantages to their children in terms of inheritance but young people from the North face disadvantages as well. When DS1 was at university there were various work experience schemes and internships in that field, almost all in London and all unpaid or with minimal expense payments. Those with family homes in the SE or studying at London unis with accommodation could do them but most from the North could not afford to, so perpetuating the ever growing gap

You'd enjoy the book Vulture Capitalism by Grace Blakeley.

The Internet at least in the form most people can access it is just about the most undemocratic thing there is. A couple of huge corporations have translated us all into algorithms so they can sell us back to ourselves

I think you mean communism here.

’twas ever thus.

and the older I get, the more rigged I think it is

What a load of claptrap.

How do you equate this view with aristocrats - do you think the Duke of Westminster for example worked 70 hours a week and missed vital moments of his twenties in order to inherit billions?