To think the system’s set up so the rich get richer and the poor get screwed?

[ThatGreenBear]

I’ve been thinking a lot lately about how society is structured, and it feels like no matter how hard some people work, they’re always struggling, while others just seem to get wealthier with minimal effort. Whether it’s the tax system, housing market, or even access to education and opportunities, everything seems stacked in favor of those who already have money and power.

AIBU to think that the system is rigged to keep the wealthy at the top while making it incredibly hard for the rest of us to get ahead? Or is this just how life works and we should all just accept it? I’d love to hear others’ thoughts on whether the playing field is as unfair as it seems, or if it’s possible for anyone to get ahead with enough hard work.

You don’t say? 😂

To those saying we should all chase riches and it’s our own fault for not working hard enough or having the tenacity to aim higher, how does society function if nobody wants a lower paid job? Take nursing for example, some hospitals now have food banks for nurses, why should a job so vital to society be worth so little? How is society going to function if we continually prize certain jobs over others that arguably do more for us as a nation? Are we saying nurses don’t work hard, because from where I’m standing they work harder than I ever have. And given the ongoing cost of living crisis our economic structure is not working for vast swathes of very important people, who literally keep us running as a nation.

Something does need to change, just blaming people for not doing well enough is not the answer.

My parents (and whole family) are working class manual workers and I was first generation to go to university. I now work in a professional job and earn just short of six figures. Despite my background I had a lot of advantages - supportive parents, a stable secure home, a strong family work ethic and generally very resilient. I chose my career because I knew it paid (very) well; it’s not my passion but you work to live, so might as well try to get into higher paid professions.

It’s not been plain sailing. It’s been very hard work, harder work that it would for someone from a more affluent background. I worked part time throughout university. I’ve had negative comments about my accent, my background, the town I’m from. To be honest, it’s water off a duck’s back - I just keep plugging away, trying to do excellent work, being responsive, and ultimately that’s what matters. Clients don’t give a shit about your background, they just want the work doing well.

I think the other factor is being generally affable and agreeable, where necessary - “playing the game”, within reason obviously. I’ve bitten my tongue about minor gripes many times because of the bigger picture.

So yes, the structure of society is unfair but there are things people can do to stack the odds more in their favour. Some people can’t or just don’t.

@Autumnweddingguest , I feel so sorry for young people these days it is massively harder for them in real terms than it was for my generation, certainly where I live in the SE it’s brutal. I don’t dispute that some people have an easier time than others or that it was much easier for me to buy a property, my husband and I bought our first house when I was 18. When we bought that house we had a mortgage which was calculated at 3 x my then fiancé’s wage and 1x mine. Apparently it’s now possible to get a mortgage at 5 x joint salary. No wonder house prices have boomed! As a result the percentage of people’s take home money which goes towards paying their mortgage or rent has vastly increased and that makes life really tough. In addition so many women have to go back to work after having children regardless of their desire to do so and children are being sent to nurseries which I don’t believe is what’s best for them. None of this is good and it makes me cross. I still believe however that opportunities exist, in today’s climate my husband and I might have chosen to concentrate on growing our business before purchasing a house and we probably would have had our children later. I understand that young people may feel defeated. I wish I could tell them all that success is possible still.

The point the poster was making is that it's a lot harder to get wealthy should that be the goal with a humanities degree that teaches you to think. There's a swathe of careers now that pay decent wages because there's a skills shortage in them; they don't want good thinkers to fill them, they want people knowledgeable and competent to fill them. If I'd done a subject I was passionate about university I'd have found it interesting but would be in a low paid job forever really- I did one I knew would get me a decent job and carry on learning about stuff I'm interested in outside of work. Lots of people with a decent income plan their studies with this in mind, and make decisions that don't necessarily align with their passions because earning a decent wage is more desirable.

@Discolites

The stats are clear than entry to degrees such as medicine are not dominated by private school pupils any longer.

Are they not still way over represented considering how few actually go to private school?

As a result the percentage of people’s take home money which goes towards paying their mortgage or rent has vastly increased and that makes life really tough

this & the fact wages are pretty crap here & have stagnated for years.

Crikey there are an awful lot of 'victims' on this thread. As PP said, the UK in 2024 has some of the best opportunities in history for people if they choose to grasp them.

Life isn't fair and adulting is difficult. I'm in my 40s and have still not bought a house but I don't blame capitalism!! I look honestly at my own life choices and take responsibility.

There are always going to be people who are luckier and better off than me and those who see me as better off and luckier than them.

In most other parts of the world there are people who would view our poorest as living like kings as we have free education and healthcare.

In my opinion, the best thing you can do for your children is to give them ambition, optimism and a great work ethic.

It depends on what you define by rich. Generational wealth, nepotism … yeah you’re never going to get it. but a decent career and 6 figure salary is available to anyone that makes the right choices.

Huge factor keeping people poor are the decisions they make over kids and partners too. I have no idea how a single sole parent can better themselves if they haven’t already got an education or career behind them. Society seems to work against them.

The tax system is certainly not set up to help those up upper (but normal salaries). £100k for example puts up in a 60% tax bracket. Of course multi millionaires seem to be able to avoid tax altogether via trusts etc.

I think the differentiating factor is what young people see around them and the aspirations they have. I have a decent career in the banking sector. My parents were working/ middle class (mum a teacher, dad in construction, but both degree educated). Until recently even I didn’t realise the salaries of people around me in my company. And I don’t mean the millions of the ceos. V Junior management on c£100k, but with 50% bonuses on top of that. The only reason I know this is because my husband became one of them. Had I known, I might have tried harder before I had kids!

£100k for example puts up in a 60% tax bracket.

and that’s why income can’t propel you so much these days. 100k today is about 80k in 2020 and 54k in the early 00s.

The only reason I know this is because my husband became one of them. Had I known, I might have tried harder before I had kids!

I agree with pp that lots just won’t know this. DHs company pay partners 2m a yr on average and NQ staff start on 120k.

Is nursing that terribly paid though? Starting salary straight out of university is just under £30k now (without enhancements which adds on more), and there are more funded opportunities to continue on to study and because an ANP- one of my friends has increased her salary to band 7 (starting at £46k-ish) in 5 years. Of course ideally everyone doing jobs like this would be paid more, but they start on not much below the average UK wage. A nurse who stays at band 5 forever or goes part time etc that's their choice

This with spades on.

I also think it’s about generational attitudes. My grandparents worked till they were in their 80’s. My parents are doing the same. I’m intending on doing the same. We can all then help out the next generation. Yes, some of that is down to luck and health but these family members have all worked through cancer, knee replacements, back operations.

And from the opposite end of the spectrum if you start work at 16 and do 6 hours per week on minimum wage you will have almost £10k saved up by the time you are 20. Do 12 hours a week from 18-20 and invest in a LISA and that’s a whopping big chunk of a flat deposit.

I did many more hours than 6 per week in the holidays and once I hit 18. At Uni I only had 10 hours of lectures a week. I’d study for another 20 and then work 30 or so hours on top. I do know uni is different now with the fees being much higher though. My kids are now working already - babysitting local kids (with me on hand to support) as well as off jobs for local friends a villagers. Both will get proper p/t jobs at 16.

The friends I had at Uni who worked, worked and worked some more have all been far more successful than those who partied.

You do your research and find a mentor, either through school or part time roles.

My Dad grew up in absolute poverty - parents on minimum wage, but his Dad/my grandad was an alcoholic so some days the only meal he had was his school lunch, and their neighbours took pity on him and fed him some days. From 11 he had a paper round to buy food for him and his younger brother which he hid under their bed. At 15/16 he was kicked out after trying to stand up against his Dad hitting his brother. He got a job on a building site and sofa surfed. He had from a young age wanted to be an architect, and he asked if he could shadow them when on the building site in his lunchbreak. They recognised his intelligence, his ambition and after a few years the company sponsored him to do a HND (a more basic degree in 2 years) in structural engineering. After many years working for others, in his 40's he set up his own company and went on for be very sucessful, he has recently retired at 70 a millionaire. I did work experience with his company when at school and what stood out for me was the level of respect his employees had for him,how he nurtured their talents from apprentice level up, and he kept in contact and mentored them even when they moved on.

So much is about attitude rather than upbringing. I have close friends raised in poverty who were clear they wanted different, and they have fought their way right up the carer ladder, and earn much more than I do with my relatively middle class upbringing. I could have probably got much higher up, but didn't have the level of fight, of determination they did.

Really?

It's the total opposite around me. Everyone I know who is wealthy is due to inheritance/family money or in some cases married into it.

They've worked far less and often not at all. Luck and privilege as opposed to good decisions.

And from the opposite end of the spectrum if you start work at 16 and do 6 hours per week on minimum wage you will have almost £10k saved up by the time you are 20. Do 12 hours a week from 18-20 and invest in a LISA and that’s a whopping big chunk of a flat deposit.

And what if you have to pay housing costs? Or want to go university & you need a job for money to live on?

My in-laws are immigrants. Bought a house in a then rough part of London in the early 80s for not very much. This was with one income, a teachers salary. That house is now about 1.4m plus. How achievable is that for today’s immigrants or even just teachers, or with one working parent?

Absolute piffle.

The deck is stacked against many people who don't have the opportunity to make their own luck or choose their own path - kids with SEN who can't access opportunities, kids who are carers, kids in abusive households etc..

Your comments smack of privilege and a lack of awareness.

Education, education, education. I see this playing out when I look at my family history. Working class manual workers,who pushed education and whose kids all went to grammar school, then to university. Their kids brought up in an environment where education was important, all go to university, graduate jobs which give more opportunity for progression and therefore high salaries. And so it repeats.

Life isn't fair and adulting is difficult. I'm in my 40s and have still not bought a house but I don't blame capitalism!! I look honestly at my own life choices and take responsibility.

The reason I haven’t bought a house is because they’re all far to expensive for me to afford because I only earn 53k a year 😂

That said I guess no one’s forcing me to live in London but I’d earn considerably less if I didn’t so not sure if it really makes a difference.

This is the second post, where everyone thinks rich people just swan around inheriting wealth.
My parents were working class. I left school at 16, worked hard all my life and am now considered rich. As are different friends. None of us inherited anything.
I would love to know where all this inherited wealth is from.

That’s not sarcasm? It’s fact.

That's just not my experience at all. Professionally and socially the people I know are where they are because of family money/privilege which has allowed opportunities they wouldn’t otherwise have had. You only have to look at the inequality stats to see the enormous effect generational wealth has.

Absolutely just luck of the draw for most.

I agree, aside from a few who manage to make it big in entertainment etc the best way to lift yourself out of the poverty cycle is through education (not just university, but learning a trade which is still education is also a route to a decent stable income in most cases). Of course there are some jobs which don't require formal qualifications that pay well, invariably they pay well because they're hard graft/physically challenging like construction jobs - even those usually require some quals now.

Yes. The older I get the more unfair it all seems and I have also benefited from it so no chip on my shoulder.

Here is one example: the more income you have, the better the credit card you can get, with rewards and lounge passes and interest free periods thrown in.