Caring for parent and holidays

[noaccesssrequired]

NC for this thread.

We have a rota to care for our elderly parent since our other parent passed away this year.

6 Children
18 Grandchildren
So potentially around 24 people could be on this rota give or take instead of 6.

One of my siblings refused to allow any of the grandchildren, despite them being adults and able to make their own decisions on whether to take part, to be included in the rota.

They have no, in my opinion, sensible reason for such a strong view. Knowing them, I think it is more a case of them being able to control the situation with fewer people and they know we will mostly be compliant.

This means there were 6 of us, taking it in turns to go every day and visit. Really for company and to do any light cleaning, washing, cooking, shopping, whatever was needed really, he can't be on his own really, but is against carers at the moment, is also grief stricken and lonely so daily visits is absolutely necessary.

Fast forward to now, 2 siblings have bailed on the rota so there are 4 of us. We are very flexible with each other and swap around between us if we need to due to other committments. Some of us live 15 minutes away and some live an hour away.

My issue is that my sibling has today announced a 12 week holiday from the 1st December. It seems that I have only been made aware of this today, because I contacted each of my siblings to check availability for the December rota.

This now means from December for 3 months the rota will be split between the 3 of us.

I personally find the rota hard work and although I enjoy spending time with my parent, it is difficult to fit in sometimes when things to crop up last minute.

Anyway, AIBU to wait until my sibling goes on holiday and then during these 12 weeks, add on all the grandchildren to the rota that would like to be and continue this moving forward, even when they are back, despite knowing that they are completely against it?

The children (even if adults) should not be involved. Please don't bring them into this mess.

You need to step back also now. Dad needs to see that without outside support he is scuppered. It is up to him to lead on this, outside help or no one.

I know this is harsh but you all need to be able to live your lives, not be enmeshed with Dad to the detriment of sibling relationships.

of course YANBU. Honestly, why are you letting your sibling dictate who visits your parent? And if they’re unilaterally announcing long holidays , it’s all the more crazy and unreasonable of them to exclude the grandchildren.

In your situation I would not try to argue the toss with your sibling, just say it’s impossible for only three of you to manage daily visits, and you’ve had to include other relatives in the rota.

I understand your motivation, however you cannot add people to a rota if they or their parents have specifically said no. In fact, grandchildren should be kept out of this altogether. If you are struggling, and I get why, then perhaps it's time to source carers to visit each day.

I don't think care of the grandparent is the grandchildren's responsibility, and I think some of them will feel like they can't say no. Eventually, those will drop out and you'll be in the same mess.

I think the only thing you can do is bring all your siblings together and say the rota isn't working, say what you yourself are willing to do in terms of caring regardless of what anyone else will do, ask them to do the same, and figure out the rest between you. Unfortunately, I think your father will need to accept that either he has carers in or he doesn't have someone in daily. If daily visits are really necessary (like, he's a risk if he tries to cook anything), I think paid help is the way forward.

Even though the grandchildren range from 22 - 45 years old?

You make a good point about stepping back but I’m not sure I could do that without feeling incredibly uncomfortable and guilty.

The grandchildren are aged between 22 - 45 years old.

You can’t force anyone into a caring role. Nobody should be guilted into it.

if someone needs more care than family are willing to provide then you need to look to get outside help.

One sibling doesn’t get to dictate terms to all the others. If the grandchildren are happy to get involved get them on the rota now ! It’s completely irrational to exclude them if they want to be involved with the care. I suspect most will want to visit GD anyway so madness not to have them taking in a bit of shopping / making him a cup of tea etc. when they are there.

Caring for a relative is hard work and you need as many willing pairs of hands as you can get - even in your own example 6 has now become 3 and could quickly become 2 if one becomes ill / wants their own holiday etc. Your sibling really can’t say anything as they aren’t going to be around for 12 weeks and I bet you DD would actually enjoy seeing his GC more regularly. It’s well known that people who are primarily homebound benefit from seeing a wider number of people as it helps with mental stimulation - wider topics of conversation etc. and I’m sure will love hearing first hand what the GC are up to most things anyway ! ) While you like seeing DD I bet if it’s every couple of days topics of conversation can get a bit narrow !

Do it for your own and other siblings sanity and well being.

I might sound really mean here but here’s my honest opinion.

I don’t think it would be fair to include the grandkids in the rota and I think although I totally understand how lonely your dad is and grieving… he needs to get a carer if he can’t look after himself. It’s really unfair to expect the whole family to move their whole life around and be on a rota.

Having a carer is the right thing, that’s not to say you can’t still be on a rota or make frequent visits and help him out.

I think inserting paid care can be a gradual process @noaccesssrequired , obviously you want to be there in the first phase after bereavement but daily visits for your dad’s care is a lot even when shared among a number of people. I wasn’t excluding grandchildren because I was thinking of a family I know where several of the younger generation are very close to the elderly relative and do visit regularly. But other posters make good points about leaving the grandchildren out of this.

Perhaps your siblings holiday can be the opportunity to start a little bit of paid care, which could then be stepped up over time.

I think you should ask the grandchildren if they would like to help, and include those who do. I was fully involved with my Grandparents at the end of their lives and considered it a privilege.

Caring for an unwell relative is a huge thing, it can take a mental toll and a lot of stress. Maybe your sibling is taking a 12 week holiday because they need it to re-group. Maybe your sibling doesn’t want the grandkids involved because they want them to have their own lives and not be Rota’d into the pressure of caring for a relative. I know I sound mean, if it was my mum or dad of course I’d make time to pop in but I would also have to get them carer. With my own DC, work etc I just couldn’t commit to a rota

My sister and I are the only two on the rota for my mother. I have two adult children and there is no way I would expect them
To be included. It's the hardest thing I've ever had to do looking after mum and that's with carers visiting 4 times per day.

The grandchildren may say yes when put on the spot but it's not fair to guilt them
Into it. Even if some say yes and some say no that's not fair either. Leave them
Out of it and sort carers.

i personally find the rota hard work and although I enjoy spending time with my parent, it is difficult to fit in sometimes when things to crop up last minute

I would think it is selfish to expect grandkids to be part of this.

The thing is, at that age, the grandchildren would presumably have offered should they so wish and it seems a bit odd to presume they have been forbidden from doing so by the parent sibling.

Maybe the sibling who is setting boundaries is perhaps worried about causing animosity between the cousins, in the same light as it is with you siblings and the feeling that her children will be pushed into a situation where they feel they need to contribute when they don't wish to or can't and don't want to motivate why.

I agree that yes, in theory, 24 adults could manage to check in on a single person on a rota, but in practice you would all have to be of that mindset, and it doesn't look like you all are.

I think the 6 siblings need to sit down and work out how best to move forward keeping in mind the age and health of parent.

You need carers in regardless. I cared for mum when I could but I'm not well myself. It meant that when I was ill systems are in place so that they are still cared for. Resentment builds with the rota thing because ultimately it's never really fair. As you say some live further away, some may have jobs that are more demanding. Put your foot down and gradually introduce carers, whilst they are still relatively able. It then becomes easier if they become more frail later on, and of course you can all visit still ,do shopping and clean and so on it just means that the obligation is off. Good luck.

The 21-45yo "children" will get their turn at this when their own parents (your generation) need it.

It's totally reasonable for you to refuse to take more than ⅙th of the rota slots. This is a boundary you should have set when the first 2 siblings dropped out.

Do not increase your slots to ⅓rd. While your sibling is on holiday your dad will have to accept paid help for that sibling's slots. His grief does not entitle him to fuck up the lives of his offspring. When the sibling returns from holiday do not get rid of the paid help. If they continue doing a quarter of the visits then the 4 of you who haven't opted out cover the other 75% between you which is a reasonable approximation to fair. The cost should be met by the over-entitled siblings who decided to opt out of this already.

Tell all the grandchildren that they can visit granddad as often as they like, but there is no need for them to go on the rota. Their visits should be social, not caring. Their turn will come when your generation is elderly.

Tell your siblings what you are prepared to do. Ask them to state what they are prepared to do. If there are gaps, tell your dad the only way he can have someone in those days is if he gets carers.

I'm assuming this is not a short term grief thing, like your mum died six weeks ago or something, and you all expect him to be able to live completely independently again. I'm assuming this is the start of permanent care of whatever form.

I agree that the first step is to get carers involved to lessen the burden on everyone.

Then decide what you are willing to do.

You are perfectly at liberty to say “I only feel able to visit once every six days, so that’s what I’m going to do”

Why have two siblings been allowed to bail and not the others?

I don’t think the person going on a twelve week holiday is unreasonable to live their own life, as long as the rest of you are at liberty to do that too.

I also agree that it’s not for the GC to do unless they actively want to.

Is there an element to some of the siblings being male and some female that is playing into this, eg the sisters being left with all the burden?

Is the rota organising sibling the eldest and therefore thinks they are in charge? Perhaps the eldest sister?

Are you a child free sibling in all of this?

I was quite happy to help care for my Granny when I was in my 20s. My Uncle organised the rota and did eventually manage to get her to accept paid carers, with visits from the rest of us on a more social basis.

In my 30s I cared for my Dad and my other Grandma at the same time. Again quite happy to do so but they did both accept paid carers (to some extent). This was whilst I had young children too, which was tough, but worthwhile for us all to be able to spend proper time with my Dad.

I don't really understand why other people are saying it is unfair to involve grandchildren. If some family members don't want / aren't able to help then that's fine, but if others are then they should be 'allowed' to help too.

When my grandfather was living at home alone in his 90s, my cousins and I would visit him when we could because we loved him and wanted to see him - eg join him to watch the football or cricket on TV with him, or someone might take him out for a drive or walk. But it never occurred to any of us that it was our responsibility to make sure he had shopping in, cook for him, worry about his personal hygiene, do his laundry, etc. Our parents generation and paid carers did that. Now I think back, maybe we were all young and self-absorbed and should have asked if more help was needed, but we were building careers, relationships, travelling, small children of our own, etc, and it genuinely never crossed my mind.

I agree with PP - the grandchildren's time will come when you as their parents get older. Don't put that burden on them a generation early.

The 22-45 yos who are working to establish their careers, save for houses, and raise young children? You want them to feel pressured to add grandparent care to their routine?

the solution is not to cause more stress by dragging in the grandchildren. The solution is to bring in outside help. Start with grocery delivery and cleaners.

You can absolutely love someone but refuse to do personal care
Doing personal care does not equate to loving them more

Really you need to step back and he needs to manage mostly on his own or get hired help. Rallying around initially is great but not long term. If he can't manage in his home then it's time to consider other housing. It's not write to force the grandkids, we were in this position as the children wouldn't take responsibility and it wrecked my marriage