Ex trying to reclaim money from child

[Preeel]

18 months ago my ex went back to university to train to be a teacher. During that time period, he was technically ‘unemployed’ (he did receive a grant, but that’s irrelevant in CMS’ view). As such, the child maintenance calculator reduced his payment to £0. His father, my child’s grandfather, then got involved and said he would continue to pay £50 a week in maintenance on behalf of his son as it wasn’t right that our child wasn’t supported. This money was paid via the grandfather to my ex, then he would transfer it to me.

My ex is finally employed and the maintenance calculator has said he needs to pay £100 a week. However, my ex is now claiming that the CMS should subtract all of the money that his father paid over the 18 months, therefore reducing his sum of £100 a week. It’s almost £4,000. I disagree as this was never the agreement, and I was never told that essentially I would need to pay this money back. It was a gentleman’s agreement if you like between the three of us to make sure our child continued to be supported.

AIBU or has my ex got a case to claim this money back?

It’s a great shame that your exFIL’s sense of responsibility wasn’t inherited by his mean son. I would phone CMS and explain the situation to them, see what they say. I get the sense your ex suggested this set up to his dad: transferring the money to him and then passing it on to you so it shows leaving his bank account. I might just be cynical though. Shame on him for doing this.

Am not a lawyer but having dealt with a small claim recently, no I don't think your ex has a case.

He would need to prove that it was agreed between you upfront that he could deduct the money, with that agreement ideally in writing between you both, but maybe a verbal agreement would suffice.

What he can't do is change the obligations or expectations of you after the money was paid / after the event and expect you to comply.

You should just go back to CMS and say you disagree, the payments were from his Dad via him I.e. just tell the truth.

Surely the ex bank statements would show the payments going into his account fromGF and then being transferred back out to you. I would be saying that to CMS

Also to add surely the payments are based upon what he's now earning and haven't included arrears as the CMS decided he wasn't employed and therefore wasn't accountable for CMS during this period therefore any payments made to you during this period aren't deductible?

Your ex is an absolute pig. I hope he doesn’t have a leg to stand on.

i dont unerstand whether he paid or not sine when do the cms knok money off forwhat was paid previously?

I can't believe the CMS would even deduct it if it WAS a voluntary payment from him. It was voluntary, why should you give it back if he then changes his mind?

Disagree and call his fsther and explain that his son is trying to get you to repay his money to his son. If CMS take it back he'll have fleeced his own father of 4k intended for his grandchild.

I hope you disagreed!

Speak to cms yourself and ask why it's even relevant he made voluntary payments! Surely you can't make voluntary payments and then decide you want it taken off your cms payments! AND make it clear the payments came from your child's grandfather to pass on to you.

I would also speak to his father, if you don't have his number, pay him a visit. I'm pretty sure he is not aware of what his son is trying to do

Absolutely right.

He sounds like a decent and caring man.

Firstly he didn't make the payments. His father did. They just went via his bank account.
Secondly, you could call his bluff and say to him "of course, no problem, I'll speak to your Dad about paying him back", and no doubt his father will decline he repayments.

That’s bonkers. Is the CMS expecting that you would have held back the money to be able to use it at a later date or expecting you to magically conjure up the money out of thin air? Or maybe they were expecting that you weren’t going to put it towards the food and clothes your ds needed, let alone the other costs associated with keeping a growing child happy, healthy and secure.

Maybe point out that all you actually end up with as a result of this expenditure on your son is a load of crap (hopefully flushed away!) and some now-used clothes, so how is this change going to help your son and what exactly are you supposed to use to support your son going forward?

Is there any reason the grandad didn’t pay you directly? If he offers to pay anything more going forward, please see if it’s possible for him to do this rather than open yourself up to another round of this sort of problem!

Hang on. Leaving aside the obvious response that the ex is a grade A twat and more, Are we saying here that if a person pays over the recommended amount of child maintenance when going through the CMS, they can have the CM amount adjusted to take that into account or even for money to be paid back?

Really?

I mean it’s bad enough that the CMS advise such paltry amounts as minimum, but to actually say that they can demand money be paid back on the basis that they had said nothing was due?

Fuck me.

And this man is a teacher? He can't even put his own child first let alone other people's.
I'd suggest that CMS check his bank account and look at where these payments came from. What a pig

Is his dad aware? What a loser.

I thought that CMS was ongoing and would date from when he starts earning and not be backdated so therefore he wouldn't owe anything for the period he was unemployed.

In that same way, whatever you received from his family member at that time, is irrelevant to whatever he can pay now surely? If he owes £100 a week now then that is what he should be paying now.

Wow OP, your ex is a prince, isn't he?
Why do some absent parents see punishing their ex as more important than providing for the lives of the children they helped create? It just sickens me. I've met a number of absent fathers who've said something like "I'm not paying her (the ex) any money to spend on her hair and nails and going clubbing" putting me in the position of having to gently explain to them that they're actually paying for food and clothes for their children!
OP, I wonder if your former FIL had some agreement with your ex that he'd pay maintenance for your DC while your ex was studying, but as soon as ex gets a job he has to pay his father back? And your ex sees the easiest way to do this is to recover the money from you (and if this is what's happened then your ex is a total scumbag!)
Is the communication from CMS a simple Yes/No option, or are you able to explain exactly what happened? CMS should be able to see a regular payment coming into your ex's bank account from his father, which your ex then pays out to you, which would support your account.

What an absolute pig of a man!!! He should be on his knees thanking his dad for making those payments

Surely he didn't make any payments his Dad ,did so thee money paid was never his , just an informal arrangement from your child's Grandfather?

tell him to take it up with CMS... go through them and he will have to pay a surcharge

This.

@Preeel It seems bizarre that CMS even care about voluntary payments. They’re voluntary by definition, so how should they affect mandatory payments?

CMS are reknown for getting things wrong. I would ring them and ask to speak to a supervisor, you’ll likely get a different answer.

CMS will ignore his nonsense, but I am sorry your ex is such a twat.

@Preeel I would have put the money from grandad down as a gift to help your son, not his git of a son!

I would contact cos and state the money came from his grandfather through the NRP and you weren't told it was a loan

Go through Child Maintenance Group as they will only claim from date you apply. So it won’t take anything prior into consideration.