to wonder why it's still considered ok to use terms that are offensive to disabled people?

[wannaBe]

because imo it isn't.

someone used the word "mong" on a thread today, and although they were pulled up by a couple of posters, that's it.

if it was a racist term it wouldn't be tolerated. so why any other offensive term? why?

And why do people still feel the need to use these terms?

so maybe it is ok then for a child of say...7 to hold his arm straight in teh air and shout Heil hitler, because he has seen it on a Tv show? after all, he doesn't know what it meant originally...to him its just a
show right?

My daughter doesn'tknow the origins of Gollywog dolls but they are still banned.

Im sorry TC but ignorance is not an excuse.

sorry, i mean FledtoSotland. not you TC at all

i'm not saying ignorance is an excuse but what i am saying is that not everyone associates the M word with DS. thats not ignorance thats just differences in the cultures/societies we live in. also with reference to your comment about a child copying a TV programme - yes a child will copy but then its up to you to educate the child as to the second world war and its attrocities.

why am i wrong for NOT using a word that can be used in a derogatory way?

I am 46 and I do remember people with downs syndrome being called mongols. My mum was a special needs teacher running a unit for children with profound disabilities until she retired. Therefore I was bought up to be very tolerant and aware of people with disabilities.
I did a quick poll with my friend's 3 teenage dcs as to what mong meant to them and where they thought the word came from. They all said it meant lazing about but none knew where it came from. My dcs do know but I have a ds with sn as do many of the mners on this thread. It's logical to expect them and their dcs to be more aware of issues surrounding disability.
It is an awful long time since people with ds were routinely described as mongols and I do not think it is surprising that there are some people who do not know the origin of the word. I am not saying it is right or an excuse, just a fact. Someone whose life has been affected by disability either directly or indirectly is always going to be more clued up on the issues that affect people with disabilities.
But like I said in an earlier post there always have been people who will use these sorts of derogatory terms to offend and will hone in on peoples differences and use them to insult or hurt. Whether it is legislated against or not will sometimes make no difference (there are stil people who use racist terminology). As I said before we realistically should maybe strive to educate and raise the awareness of the illinformed and not give the others the satisfaction of our attention. I actually do not believe there is anyone on here that would fall into the latter catagory.
And to the mner who said her dd with ds would probably smile at someone who called her a mong, smiling is probably the best reaction imo. Why give the ignorant the satisfaction of the response they are expecting. You have no hope of educating them. They clearly already know what they are saying is offensive and wrong, that's their intention.

no it is not just an 'english' thing - here in Australia it is also seen as a derogatory term. In fact there was an outcry when a judge on australian idol - referred to a contestant as 'the full mong'. The judge used some of the lame excuses I am hearing here - well I thought it meant x,y,z. Still not acceptable.

Well now you know better and have been made aware of the offensive nature and history of the term- no doubt you will teach your children and it won't be heard in your household.

Cultural differences are a crock. In Aus - we use the term paki - generally because we like to shorten things and are actually lazy when it comes to words - the classic example I can think of - we had not been here long and there was a story in the newspaper about the Pakistani cricket team. Dh an englishman was absolutely shocked to see the word Paki in huge headlines - as his cultural context says that is an offensive word. That it has a history of being offensive in the UK. For me as an aussie - I did not know until moving to the UK that it was an offensive term. It was just a cricket team to me - as the West Indies team was always referred to as the Windies. Now I know the term is offensive to a group of people. I don't use it - actually I rarely used it anyway ( not a cricket fan).

However - if you look at the physical representation of what you fled thought it referred to - there is still a link with people with down syndrome or an intellectual impairment. The somewhat open mouthed look - people with down syndrome - due to muscle tone and facial structure can have issues with tongue protusion - and so that look is something that they cannot help at times. The limp, floppy posture - is related to the fact that people with down syndrome - and other syndromes can have hypotonia which can cause this. That is where the likeness comes from.

As for me - I thank god for not political correctness BUT people who think that others are so much more than offensive labels and it is a dignified and respectful thing to use terms appropriate to their situation - not whatver term they feel is acceptable BUT rather what is acceptable to that group of people.

Sorry got that wrong ...she said someone had called her a "spaz" not a mong .....both equally revolting terms imo

Some of you need to get a grip!!
I personally am bloody sick of being told what I can and can't say, because it's not PC !!
WTF
I am quite open with my opinions and terms.
I will always use whatever term comes to mind, and I find that I have not offended anyone!
From one year to the next , different words have different meanings..eg (early to latest, that I know of!)

GAy--happy, homo
Homo--gay, homosexual
Wicked--evil, cool
Cool-- cold, good
groovy-- cool, or piss taking ,what a load of shit!
Sick--chuckin up, Now it means GOOD???

These are the most simple eg's I can come up with , without being shot down in flames.
The most UN_PC being the 'N' word, which of course we all know is very very offensive, unless you are a particular person , in which case it is a friedly gesture???

What a load of old sssshit!!
IMO, it is not what you say, but the way in which you say it.

Some of you need to get a grip!!
I personally am bloody sick of being told what I can and can't say, because it's not PC !!
WTF
I am quite open with my opinions and terms.
I will always use whatever term comes to mind, and I find that I have not offended anyone!
From one year to the next , different words have different meanings..eg (early to latest, that I know of!)

GAy--happy, homo
Homo--gay, homosexual
Wicked--evil, cool
Cool-- cold, good
groovy-- cool, or piss taking ,what a load of shit!
Sick--chuckin up, Now it means GOOD???

These are the most simple eg's I can come up with , without being shot down in flames.
The most UN_PC being the 'N' word, which of course we all know is very very offensive, unless you are a particular person , in which case it is a friedly gesture???

What a load of old sssshit!!
IMO, it is not what you say, but the way in which you say it.

Sorry 4 double post

berri - you have totally missed the point.

The term 'mong' is offensive to a group of people no matter what context or in what tone it is said. Out of common decency and respect for another human being - one would think you would choose not to use the word again now that you know it is offensive and you know its offensive origins.

You say that you say what you like and have never offended anyone - well that you know of. Perhaps they did not feel they could challenge you on your use of language or did not know how to explain your offensive language - does not mean offense was not taken. Sometimes we get tired of fighting for respect in 2008 - when one would assume ( wrongly) that the world is a more accepting and inclusive place.

I find this hilarious that so many of you think this is an issue of political correctness - again - totally missed the point. It is about respecting and embracing all people. It is about showing respect for others and being mindful of not causing offense and upset where we can. It is when being given the information to explain why something is offensive - taking it in and trying to not do it again.

IT is about creating a world where for our children where people are not judged on their skin colour, physical features, intellect BUT on the content of their character and their potential.

shouldbeworking - I agree with your post except on one point. I think that a child with LD's smiling back at someone bullying them because of their LD's (or disability whatever) is one of the most gut wrenchingly awful things to have to watch. DS1 steers well clear of other children, but occasionally I have seen him being semi-bullied/teased (not for long as he's never out of an adult's eyesight) and he just looks confused and as if he has no idea what's going on.

beri- you carry on using the words you want. If you use mong to refer to someone with LD's in front of me you will offend me- but you carry on love.

here here Eidsvold. It's about having an ounce of fucking decency.

You are probably right yurt I was just making the point that, as with most bullies, people who would stoop so low as to use that type of language to someone with ld are doing it to get a reaction. Not giving them the reaction they want is a a good thing.
Of course what I would actually want to do is punch their lights out!!!! I'd probably end up on an assault though such is the way of justice at times!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry that should have read assault charge

Yes, but we can choose to not give a reaction. People with LD's aren't reacting because they don't understand.

It starts there and ends with death after being kept in a shed and tortured by two 'friends' or thrown off a bridge by 'friends'. There have been some hideous stories of abuse towards people with LD's over the last year and I would rather see zero tolerance.

I'd want to punch them too btw.

the other side of a LD child being teased/bullied/called among and smiling back, is that the people teasing/bullying/callig names think it is funny.

I had this withh dd1 last year, being teased at a playground by a bunch of pre-schoolers. One of them was stopping her getting on the slide, and she didn't mind, was smiling etc, and then the other child said "oh, it's ok, it's only XXXX, she comes to [Toddler Group], you can do anyhting to her, she doesn't mind" and another older boy htought htis was hysterical, and carried on teasing, etc (not for long, obv, as I stepped in and told him off, but the actions were chilling. These children were 4 years old... and their parents were just watching...)

Yes, that's what I mean silverfrog. DS1 (almost 9) still ends up in that situation. Usually at the top of slides

No you're unreasonable to wonder and not just to condemn!!! Then I read other posts in the thread and realise that 'mong' in this instance was referring to kids staring at the TV and doubt that she had any intention to be offensive. Sometimes words get used in a context so frequently that where they derive from gets a little lost...so mongaloid and mongol are not assosiated with Mongolia (which some agrue is why people with DS were could Mongoloids) and now people say 'mong' with reference to a drugged up state of mind.
It's good to remind people that their words can be harmful but to expect everyone to be aware of this may be unreasonable. My friend's mother used the word 'wog' and I nearly fell off my chair, she corrected herself and said 'nig nog', it takes a lot of reminding for some folk and this woman is educated but obviously very ignorant.

posie - I can accept that people may use the term out of ignorance - what I find gobsmacking is the defense of the use of such terms when the offense and the history has been explained. What I find ridiculous is the victim being made to be somehow at fault - for being too pc and too touchy to let terms like that slide.

Use it once in front of me - and I will kindly and gently explain that it is inappropriate - use it again when you know it is offensive and you show yourself to be disrespectful and arrogant as if your words are more important than showing respect to another person.

Completely agree, ignorance is one thing but when that is negated for an excuse then they are rude and offensive.

A very sad situation silverfrog. This actually makes me very . That 4 yr olds would behave that way and their parents do nothing makes me realise what a long way we have still to go. My ds is 19 but I can remember him being off school poorly when he was about 7 and having to take him in a major buggy to pick up ds2 from school. The children in the playground were very surprised to see a child of my ds's age in a "pushchair". Most were just curious and asked me why and I was happy to explain that he had something wrong with his joints that made walking hard and sometimes he needed a ride. A couple made some nasty comments about him and their parents did nothing. Very sad to see that over ten years later not much has changed.

berrieb, you use your freedom of speech/ let's not overdo the political correctness argument to forgive using a word (mong) which is deeply offensive to the people in society least able to fight back. In other words, you use your so-called liberalness to excuse bullying and demeaning language. Have you a disabled child yourself? If not, walk a mile in our shoes before you tell anyone to "get a grip". Or, in less pc language, go fXXX yourself and your banale argument.

PC terms are things like 'the missus', 'old dear' not offensive words like 'mong' or 'spastic' for example. Whilst I object to non pc language it doesn't offend me it says volumes about the ignorance of the person saying it, offensive language (especially as it was pointed out) is just offensive and nothing else.