to wonder why it's still considered ok to use terms that are offensive to disabled people?

[wannaBe]

because imo it isn't.

someone used the word "mong" on a thread today, and although they were pulled up by a couple of posters, that's it.

if it was a racist term it wouldn't be tolerated. so why any other offensive term? why?

And why do people still feel the need to use these terms?

Mamazon good post

Mamazon said "Im sorry but it IS offensive. As is "spaz" "retard" "raspberry" etc">

I'd never heard of it before which shows what a minefield a casual chat can be

What does rasberry refer to?

raspberry, even.

raspberry ripple = rhyming slang for cripple

But personally I have never heard raspberry used to insult a disabled person
I am 44 and don't remember a time when "Paki" was not used as a racist insult. I first saw it when I was 9 and it had been graffitied onto our corner shop's windows, along with an invitation to the owners to "go home".

Well as for raspberry you will have to discuss that with Mamazon. I didn't make it up.

I am 52 (I think that trumps your age ) and do remember it just meaning someone from pakistan

But, greyriverside, the person who originally used the term mong, used it to mean that her child would be sitting gawping at a screen (iirc) in a pointless (?) fashion, ie "mong out".

I think that coul be included under your "only an insult if used perjoratively" argument.

And it is that original usage that people have taken offence at ie, the fact that the original user of mong, did not want their child to sit in a slack-jawed, listless, manner, presumably as a learning disabled person would.

I bow to your advanced years greyriverside

I believe that people have claimed this is now a common word meaning something like 'to view passively/without intellectual effort' Isn't that what couch potato means? Isn't it what generations of parents have complained their teenagers do?.
I'm not familier with the word itself, but that sounds reasonable to me and a quick search seems to back it up. In any case it's what they mean by it which is the point.

Also it wasn't aimed at someone disabled was it?

If they had walked up to a disabled person (yes, yes I know disabled isn't the right word, but I don't know what other general term exists) and said "hey you! Mong!!" now that would be offensive. They were not even thinking about disabled people at the time. I go whole days sometimes without thinking about minorities.

Marina, you can have some of them if you want

er, yes, greyriverside. You sem to be making my point for me.

It is exactly that that is a problem (as a parent to a child who could be said to view passively, wihtout intellectual effort) - I do object to the fact that such a usage is seen as ok.

Goodness me.

This is why I rarely talk and double check my comments before posting.

seem to b making my point in saying

"I believe that people have claimed this is now a common word meaning something like 'to view passively/without intellectual effort'...In any case it's what they mean by it which is the point"

I do not think it is enough to say "it wasn't aimed at a disabled person.

I could say to my dh, for eg "I'm glad you're not scared of dogs ,like negroes are" (theme from another current thread) but this would be unacceptable both from a ridiculous prejudiced view and a vocabulary pov. It is not acceptable simply because dh is not a negro

It's a free country greyriverside you can use mong/retard/spazz daily in your conversation if you wish. As the parent of a child with severe learning disabilities I wouldn't bother to talk to someone who did so, if they used such words in full understanding of its meaning because to be honest I wouldn't want anything to do with them (of course it's different if they don't know, at which point a polite request not to use the word is sufficient - I'm sure we've all been in that situation- in which case I like it to be pointed out to me so I don't use it again and offend someone else).

the thing is, I doubt there are many people who do not know what the word negro was used as and that it should not be used now.
some words are used in innocence without knowing their impact.
I would imagine that this is possibly what started the whole thing in the first place (though I did not see the original thread)

yes, elf, you are right, that is where this started out. BUT, once it was (fairly politely) pointed out where "mong" derived from, instead of people saying "fancy that, i never knew that. Ok, I'll stop using it", people started trying to defend their right to use it.

Bizarre.

Silverfrog, the state described 'view passively/without intellectual effort' does not in itself mean mental disability and certainly not in this instance. It's something we all do to a greater or lesser degree depending on tiredness, lack of interest/motiviation and so on. That state does not 'belong' to a minority group.
The word doesn't either. it now means the above state.

The intent was to refer to a state then that has nothing to do with a particuler group. It's made by someone who is not in that group in conversation with someone else who is not in that group with no intention of refering to that group.

Yet you insist it's about you?

ElfOnTheTopShelf, I'm not sure what you were objecting to so feel free to elaborate.

Oh for goodness sake Greyriverside given your age you must be old enough to remember people with DS being called Mongols. That was the name used in the 70's when I was a young child. Then there followed an advertising campaign with a child with DS and the caption "I'm not a mongol" (or something like that- I was about 10 at the time and remember it).

Walk around with a child with learning disabilities and hear them referred to as a 'mong' - your child - your beautiful child- who to others is no more than a 'mong' - hear that a few times and there is no doubt where "to mong out" comes from.

But as I said if you want to use it continue. Go ahead. But you will be judged by some as being ignorant and offensive. but hey ho I'm sure it's your right to do so.

I'm not sure that I'm insisting it's about me...

But surely you can see that the current meaning has only come about because of it's original meaning? To me your argument seems to say that just because a lot of people use it, it must be ok, and that I just don't get.

I dont think I am objecting to anything

I hadn't seen the original thread so didn't know what happen AFTER the word was used. I was just pointing out that sometimes you can use a word which has a very different meaning to anything you ever intended in the first place.

I use the word Mooch a lot. I dont know what it means, but you can bet your bottom dollar that somewhere in the world is means something terrible. Muppet is also a common word here (just different words to idiots but again, probably offensive somewhere!)

Elf I don't agree. The word mong has a very clear history which should be recognisable to anyone in their 30's up (I don't know at which age it would stop being recognisable perhaps younger perhaps mid 30's). I had no problem understanding its meaning at all the first time I heard it being used.

Muppet probably comes from the muppets. I doubt that could be offensive to anyone.

I'm early 30's, and had no trouble understanding it when I first heard it when I was younger...

And anyway even if the original derivation has been lost it is used by the younger generation to mean a person with learning disabilities. I know this because friend's have had it shouted at their kids. Therefore it should be pretty easily recognisable that putting to and out either side of it doesn't radically alter its meaning.