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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

to wonder why it's still considered ok to use terms that are offensive to disabled people?

291 replies

wannaBe · 24/04/2008 14:18

because imo it isn't.

someone used the word "mong" on a thread today, and although they were pulled up by a couple of posters, that's it.

if it was a racist term it wouldn't be tolerated. so why any other offensive term? why?

And why do people still feel the need to use these terms?

OP posts:
Greyriverside · 25/04/2008 21:57

Further up I typed "hey you! Mong!!" as an example of someone being offensive. I winced when I put it in because there is no doubt in my mind that if someone shouted that at a child who was disabled it would be meant to be cruel.
I would probably punch someone for saying that and accept the consequences because I couldn't let it pass.

So now you can label me as violent too, though in fact I'm generally as gentle as can be

The truth is I see a huge gulf between the two situations and some other posters do not. I don't expect to sway you, but other readers can make up their own minds having seen both points of view expressed.

ElfOnTheTopShelf, ok I thought you were refering to something I said then. Don't google Mooch. it probably does mean something bad

ElfOnTheTopShelf · 25/04/2008 21:58

I'm 26.
I never heard that word when I was growing up. I do remember people using the word "spaz" and my mum threatening she'd chop off my fingers if I ever said that.
But "mong" wasn't a word I heard growing up.
I am not saying it is right to say the word. I am saying I can understand how somebody can say something and not know it is offensive.

yurt1 · 25/04/2008 22:05

I don't think anyone would disagree with that Elf. But I think that once someone's been told that it is offensive and why, most people would want to stop using that word. I don't see the point of defending its right to be used after someone has discovered its meaning.

I fully expect ds2 (6) and ds3 (3) to use the word sometime. Of course they won't know what it means. I will then explain to them why it's not allowed in our house (they know all about learning disabilities).

ElfOnTheTopShelf · 25/04/2008 22:07

I am not defending the right to use the word though.

My posts are only in the "yes, can see how this happens" manner rather than "stop being so PC and let people use the word"

yurt1 · 25/04/2008 22:15

No, I know you're not. Sorry that was more generally aimed. I'm just saying people have understood it can be used innocently.

When it was used on the thread yesterday I just said please would you not use that phrase. Or something like that. One sentence with the word please. Nothing else.

mshadowsisfab · 25/04/2008 22:22

i can not believe this is still go ing on. shame mn hq didn't send out a message by deleting the post.
using the word mong is wrong end of story. look in the dictionary you will find loads of other words you can use.

Original poster
wannaBe · 25/04/2008 22:26

Once the meaning of a word has been pointed out there is no justification for using it imo.

But I do wonder if the world is divided into two different types of people. Those that are sensitive to the offence they may cause others, and those that don?t really feel it?s an issue as long as they?re not personally offended, and often can?t grasp why the offence would be caused anyway.

I don?t think it matters whether a word has been used to actually describe someone with a learning difficulty, if the word is derived from one which is used to describe someone with a learning difficulty then it is wrong. In the same way as words that might be derived from racist terms. I.e. anyone remember those anecede (sp?) balls you used to buy in the shops? We used to call them ?nigger balls?. They were a name for the sweets, most children wouldn?t even have known the connotation, and yet we wouldn?t call them that now would we? So similarly we shouldn?t call anyone a spaz or mong or any other type of derogatory term.

OP posts:
fruitbowl · 25/04/2008 22:26

Before I read this thread, I thought of "mong out" as a slang term for describing someone in an incapacitated state. Of course I realise that calling somebody "a mong" is highly offensive but I think the "mong out" expression has crept into the vocab of a generation of people (myself included and I'm late 30s) without anyone thinking properly about it's roots.

I am not excusing this, I will certainly try not to use the expression now I realise it might offend, but if I'm honest, it had really never crossed my mind before. I'm not proud of that, but I'm being honest.

I consider myself well-educated and compassionate and the thought of offending anyone horrifies me. I think it's what happens linguistically, the roots of words become lost over time and then people use them without awareness. Did you know "get on my wick" is v rude for example as it originally referred to the male member?

I'm not saying the usage of the term is acceptable but like others, just explaining that even older, otherwise enlightened people may be using it without realising. Thanks for pointing it out.

mshadowsisfab · 25/04/2008 22:31

weird how ds aged 16 can get it

StripeyKnickersSpottySocks · 25/04/2008 22:33

Now I'd never call anyone a mong or use the term "mong out".

But this thread has got me thinking....

Is it offensive to use the term "veg out" - is it related to the fact that sevrely brain damaged/disabled people sometimes used to be referred to as "cabbages" or "vegetables".

Genuinely interested as I would use the term "veg out in front of the TV".

mshadowsisfab · 25/04/2008 22:35

i would use veg out.

Original poster
wannaBe · 25/04/2008 22:41

I do wonder though whether a lot of people don't react to these terms in the same way as racist ones because they just haven't had much experience of people with disabilities? And therefore they really don't realize the impact it has? Racism is everywhere. it's talked about on the news, in the tabloids, we all must know someone who is of ethnic origin, and therefore it's second nature, especially to our generation, not to use these terms.

But how many people don't ever come into contact with someone with a disability? I've read countless posts on here from people who say they had no idea about ASD for eg, before they came on mn and read posts by yurt and others with dc who have asd.

Also, the offence taken is usually by the parent/sibling/other family member, because the person with ld's often doesn't have the understanding to take offence, so to those that are ignorant, it's like second-hand offence, iyswim?

OP posts:
mshadowsisfab · 25/04/2008 22:44

I agree with you wannabe
i get upset for dd as she is so trusting. when the little darling up the road was calling her a spaz. she would have still smiled and been freindly. that is why the rest of the family protect her. like a lot of the sn children on here she doesn't have a mean bone in her body.
yet people still try to convince themselves it is just words

Original poster
wannaBe · 25/04/2008 22:49

exactly. and as she can't tell them to fuck off herself someone has to do it for her. .

OP posts:
mshadowsisfab · 25/04/2008 22:52

I think ds will teach her

fledtoscotland · 25/04/2008 22:52

maybe i live in a totally different world to everyone else but i would never associate the M word with Downs syndrome. the only context i have ever heard it used in was by teenagers describing "hanging" out or relaxing.

i love this PC society of ours where we have chalk boards in case the board take offense to be being a certain colour

mshadowsisfab · 25/04/2008 22:54

oh blame it on pc.
this is like banging your head against a brick wall.

TotalChaos · 25/04/2008 22:56

oh FGS. bet you read the daily mail.

fledtoscotland · 25/04/2008 22:56

no - what i was trying to point out was that every word has many meanings and not everyone is out to insult their fellow humans. why are you banging your head off a wall?

yurt1 · 25/04/2008 22:57

Yeah - because when someone says 'oh yuck a mong' at your disabled child (as someone said to my friend's 8 year old daughter) it's just being pointlessly PC to find that offensive isn't it?

Dear god.

TotalChaos · 25/04/2008 22:58

the second para of your post. which carries the snide insinuation that avoiding offensive terminology is part of some loony left politically correct ploy.

mshadowsisfab · 25/04/2008 22:58

trying to get people on here just to accept that is wrong. doesn't matter to you if you can't use a few words. mn is supposed to be (pmsl) full of inteligent people. surely you can find other words to use.

fledtoscotland · 25/04/2008 23:00

TC - think you are way off the mark. i was commenting that i had never heard the M word in a derogatory context not that i am condoning insults. Any insult is wrong whether or not it uses words that MN deems unacceptable or not. surely its the context of the words as much as the actual words themselves?

TotalChaos · 25/04/2008 23:12

I wasn't disputing that first point - that you weren't aware of any disablist connotations. more irritated by the second point - that you were comparing annoyance at such a nasty word with calling blackboards something difference.

fledtoscotland · 25/04/2008 23:16

but thats my whole point - i wasnt aware of the connection between the M word and Downs syndrome. maybe its an "english" thing as in the west of scotland the word M word is associated with teenagers smoking cannabis and chilling out. have checked with my DH and he had never heard of that meaning.