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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

to wonder why it's still considered ok to use terms that are offensive to disabled people?

291 replies

wannaBe · 24/04/2008 14:18

because imo it isn't.

someone used the word "mong" on a thread today, and although they were pulled up by a couple of posters, that's it.

if it was a racist term it wouldn't be tolerated. so why any other offensive term? why?

And why do people still feel the need to use these terms?

OP posts:
PandaG · 24/04/2008 14:44

oh of course - never heard the abbreviation. THanks for the explanation. NOw I understand I think it is unacceptable.

wannaBe · 24/04/2008 14:44

well the word is a term for a group of people. if I posted "I thin I'll go to the ch**nky up the road for a takeaway" would it be allowed to stand? I think not.

OP posts:
MicrowaveOnly · 24/04/2008 14:46

wannabe, I can see that having a Downs child would make you sensitive to the words being used. But that still doesn't make censorship right. Its still just one persons opinion.

Spero · 24/04/2008 14:48

But isn't this interesting? why did 'mongoloid' become unacceptable? As i understand it, this was a perfectly acceptable medical term UNTIL it became bandied about as an insult... then we lost spastic... is there any merit in trying to 'reclaim' words (like 'queer') so they lose their power?

MicrowaveOnly · 24/04/2008 14:48

wannabe, why not? nothing offensive is meant, we all know its a slang word for chinese. Why look for racism when there isn't any?

Graciefer · 24/04/2008 14:48

Spero, I would hope common sense would prevail, however in this case it seems like several posters have complained, to no avail.

It seems people may think this is trivial, however would they have the same stance if the word was racist, homophobic, sexist or bigotted?

MicrowaveOnly · 24/04/2008 14:50

yes spero, you could write a list of words that used to be ok to describe disabled people and now isn't. I'm sure the current one (whatever that is? someone tell me?)will fall out of favour soon enough!!

Spero · 24/04/2008 14:51

Gracifer, no i suspect they wouldn't but that is because those groups of people are at least out and about in society. it is because the disabled are (mostly) not that we have a problem.

anniemac · 24/04/2008 14:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

MicrowaveOnly · 24/04/2008 14:53

if the word was racist, homophobic, sexist or bigotted?

see now you're implying that mn are not bothered about disabled people..but would be about other minorities.

You are infering something that has no grounds, which is why his type of word policing is so nasty and ionsulting in itself!!!

anniemac · 24/04/2008 14:55

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Message withdrawn

Elffriend · 24/04/2008 14:56

I do find the word offensive and would not use it. BUT I do remember it being common parlance when I was a kid (in the context implied in the OP)and can well beleive that people might use it without really understanding what they were saying. Interestingly though, I also remember children at the time using the word spastic to describe people who were (being) stupid etc. Even then I found that bad - I thought of it as a swear word and found it quite upsetting (and I'm g0ing back to when I was about 8-9 -a long time ago).

So, I don't think its still considered okay generally. I would pick someone up on it.

Spero · 24/04/2008 14:57

We 'lost' spastic because the Spastic Society felt compelled ot change their name because spazz etc was becoming a common playground insult.

i think that is a great shame and didn't tackle the underlying problem; that people often feel hatred/revulsion towards disabled people. why change a name to accommodate them?

jesuswhatnext · 24/04/2008 14:57

i'v got a feeling that the 'm' word, when used by teenagers is not used as an offensive conotation iyswim, i think it is the same way as using 'phat','book' and that type of thing.

i think most people under about 25 have never really heard the term mongolism, it has not been in common usage for quite a few years now.

Graciefer · 24/04/2008 14:58

You believe there is no grounds for that implication?

I have to agree to disagree with you, I am afraid.

MicrowaveOnly · 24/04/2008 14:59

spero that's like the term Paki. It just used to be a shortened word for soemone from Pakistan. But once it became a playground taunt it got 'banned'. You can't win.

Elffriend · 24/04/2008 15:01

Actually there were a lot of words bandied around then that I would never dream of using now. 'Having an eppy' is one that springs to mind. Can't remember if I used it - I probably did. It just meant losing the plot in terms of temper etc. I certanly never associated it with a medical condition and I never meant to be offensive. I was a kid - and ignorant. sa an adult, I am less ignorant and now would use terms that promoted that ignorance. It is not about "re-claiming" words. It's about using appropriate words in appropriate circumstances.

MicrowaveOnly · 24/04/2008 15:03

But Gracie the poster who wrote Mong is just showing everyone something about her limited vocab/upbringing...who knows? But removing it doesn't make any of that go away. It doesn't make her suddenly a better person. What is the point of pretending she never said it, and pretending no-one uses those words when clearly they do. You can't go aroung deleteing parts of history books that you don't like. That's worse thyan the original offense!

yurt1 · 24/04/2008 15:03

It's not an 'opinion' (if it is its a bloody dodgy one) it's an offensive word.

Deciding that the use of certain words on mnet is inappropriate is not censorship.

There's a difference between words like fuck (which aren't offensive to any group) and paki/mong/spazz/chinky which are.

Spero · 24/04/2008 15:03

But then we are back to the subjective. Who decides what is appropriate and when it is appropriate?

If what we are really concerned about is discrimination against the disabled i think there are more important things to get worried about. That's all.

AgonyBeetle · 24/04/2008 15:04

The majority of the terms which were once medical but now pejorative fell out of medical use because they no longer reflected current scientific thinking.

So 'mongoloid' was a descriptive term originally based on the observation that many people with DS have an epicanthic fold in their upper eyelid. It fell out of use as it became supplanted by the more accurate scientific term 'Downs syndrome'.

Similarly, 'cretin', 'feeble-minded' etc were originally medical attempts to categorise different types of mental retardation, but fell out of use ages ago as they didn't actually reflect any objective categories. In the same way 'spastic' is not a synonym for all types of CP, it's a subtype of CP, and can now really only be used for that specific meaning.

You can see this process very clearly with the use of 'Dumb' to mean somebody who can't speak -- the inability to speak is not actually a single category, there may be loads of reasons why people are unable to speak, so 'dumb' doesn't really have any appropriate scientific usage, whereas terms like 'blind' and 'deaf' are still in use now (albeit being supplanted by the more accurate 'visual/hearing impairment').

I can't get hugely excited about the inadvertent use of non-pc terms by people who don't know any better, but I do think once it has been pointed out you that you've used a word that is arguable offensive or inappropriate it's no more than common sense to try and avoid using it again. I don't think that equates to 'censorship' in the way that Microwave seems to be implying, and I do think it's entirely comparable with the use of a term like 'half-caste' -- even if no offence is intended, people will be offended, so once you know that, you should make an effort to use appropriate terms.

Spero · 24/04/2008 15:04

yurt i know LOADS of people who would be horrified and offended if you said 'fuck' in front of them. My mum for starters.

Spero · 24/04/2008 15:04

yurt i know LOADS of people who would be horrified and offended if you said 'fuck' in front of them. My mum for starters.

Elffriend · 24/04/2008 15:05

Microwave - Paki was ALWAYS an insult I'm afraid. It was used to describe someone in a derogatory manner - it was not just to explain their country of origin.

OverMyDeadBody · 24/04/2008 15:05

spero presumably mongoloid is unacceptable as a term for people with down's syndrome as it is descriptive of their facial features resembling Mongolians. I for one am glad this is no longer an acceptable term for DS.