To hope that Donald Trump doesn’t win the election

[RosaMoline]

….it’s getting closer.
I was hoping that Kamala would be a shoo-in for the presidency, but looking at the betting odds, I’m feeling quite pessimistic.
It’s incomprehensible to me that a convicted felon, racist, rapist, liar and misogynist who spurred on an insurrection - after everything that’s happened - is running for office again and may very well win.
It’s comforting to read though that fellow Brits DON’T support him.
Apart from Reform. Obviously.
yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/50752-who-did-britons-want-to-win-the-2024-us-presidential-election

Dirty Donald is the most deliberately divisive candidate in the modern era and that's what you complain about.

My belief is that because they have been let down over and over. They are vulnerable (old industries have not been replaced, farmers have been shafted), lower education levels (and so religious nutters fill in the gaps) etc. Dem states are not all rural but Dems have most support in big cities with higher levels of education, with tech industry etc

Surely it's the PEOPLE who 'control the country'? Or those they elect.

Why should the vote of people living in some states be worth more electorally than people living in other states? Land can't vote. Only people can.

I do think when it comes to migration while the Republican lies have been repugnant, the Dems have also been dishonest. Most of the states under pressure from immigration are lib states. Dem states said it wasnt a big problem and some established sanctuary cities to prove this. When republicans started bussing immigrants to this cities (a tiny fraction of those that arrive), the Dem states cried foul and said it was too much. In other words, US is long overdue for political reforms, soul searching (Esp by the Dems) and a robust third party (hopefully left leaning). And as an immigrant myself, the West needs to understand that global equality is essential. If they dont want immigrants from the global South , there needs to be better and fair trade terms and Southern countries need to be allowed to thrive. But then again in other Western countries the demand for labour and falling birth rates mean you need immigrants (a few years back farmers in US were complaining that immigration restrictions meant they had unpicked fruit and were going under).

I think in this last stretch Dickhead Donald will keep shooting himself in the foot that although last week he could have won, by next week he will be on the loosing side. Hello Puerto Rico!!!

Its not about reversing flow of educated people (they are flowing to where jobs and better quality of life is). Its about changing those states to improve education, jobs, quality of life. Yes some of this is state level but Feds can also do things. But I dont think the Dems care that much. Same with Black voters. Dems can do so much more to address structural inequality when in power. But they dont care enough (Especially since they take that voting block as a given for them). America is screwed either way. Just screwed much less on one side than the other.

@saltinesandcoffeecups
"Or just maybe (and I’m spitballing here) these alleged ill informed people in these flyover states might have done their own research and decided they don’t agree with democrat policies…"

Yes - they've done their own research on 'Truth' (lol) Social, Facebook, OAN, Fox etc, plus the constant stream of lies and disinformation on their social media feeds.

Which is how you end up with a situation where a huge percentage of Republican voters believe that trans children are being operated on at school, where Democrats are advocating for post birth abortions/execution of babies, that Hillary Clinton is drinking the blood of children, where Obama is a Muslim and where Michelle Obama is a man.

What makes these people different from Hitler supporters in 1930's Germany who genuinely believed that Jews were killing and drinking the blood of children?

So some genuine questions to you - are trans children being operated on at school? Are babies being 'executed' after birth by doctors in Democrat states, and do Democrats support this? Was the 2020 election stolen? If you answer 'no' to any of these things maybe ask yourself why you're supporting a candidate who is willing to spread such dangerous, dangerous propaganda - designed to incite political violence against Democrats.

I’m not sure that Biden calling Republicans garbage really helped Kamala’s unity case. Of course he didn’t really mean it 🙄

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/29/us/politics/biden-garbage-trump-supporters.html

Of course this is the man whose wife called Latinos ‘Tacos’.

Or you have Ted Cruz

A school district has asked Ted Cruz to pull ads about transgender athletes using an image of tunderage girls -who aren't transgender- without permission from the girls' families.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/school-asks-ted-cruz-to-stop-using-image-of-girls-in-trans-attack-ads-without-permission/

well I’ve not actually researched any of those things you asked about so I’ll withhold comment 🙄 (that was sarcasm btw…normally I wouldn’t feel the need to point that out but I have the feeling subtleties are lost in this discussion).

I do know that illegal border crossings numbers are staggering… in fairness they have been dropping since Biden reintroduced the Trump era rules https://www.cbsnews.com/news/border-crossings-us-mexico-border-june-2024/

Interest is still outrageously high

We’re still pouring money into proxy wars while FEMA runs out of money for US citizens devastated by hurricanes.

I’m not entirely keen on the wiffle waffling stance on the Supreme Court … court stacking and term limits

And I think there are way too many regulations being enacted by unelected bureaucrats via government departments

Women’s rights are being eroded with the watering down of Title IX

just a few things that I care about… but yeah… feel free to continue to assume I think the earth is flat and the moon is made of cheese. It doesn’t bother me.

@saltinesandcoffeecups

This isn't a gotcha attempt, it's a genuine attempt to understand your point of view as I struggle with it.

Did the MSG Trump rally not unsettle you?

There was overt racism (not even thinly veiled) and hateful (Nazi 'adjacent' at best) rhetoric on display at the rally.

Does that not concern you?

Even if you still don't support Harris, as is absolutely 100% your right, did the MSG event not call into question the ethics and beliefs of a Trump presidency for you, even if the felony charges didn't?

The Trump machine (those most closely surrounding and advising him) chose the speakers, gave them a platform. The supporters cheered and encouraged the comments made.

The event was a reflection of the presidency on offer.

No. People are easily duped by not being given correct information, which is what Fox does. I mean, David French is pretty damn conservative and I was just listening to him talk the other day about how people in his town in Tennessee (where he has been expelled from his church for not supporting Trump) literally don't hear any news other than what's on Fox.

Quite frankly, the Republican Party is not the party your grandmother voted for. I have plenty of disagreements with old school Republicans, but they were a genuine political party with a genuine philosophy. Within those confines, there can be plenty of differences in how issues should be approached, but they are just that. This Republican Party is no longer even playing at anything other than representing stoked up grievance.

Would your grandmother have approved of tanking social security, which she most likely paid into in good faith all her life and probably relied on, in part, for her later years. Would she approve of a sitting senator lying about his own constituents (Hatians, in the US legally)? Would she approve of the name calling and lying and othering? Would she approve of smearing a decorated General who lost his own son on the battlefield for talking about his experience with a man who he says should never again be trusted with the power of the presidency?

My own grandparents were also Republicans, but their parents were immigrants, and this is not their Republican Party.

For all of my UK friends… this is the arrogance that the current republican voters are voting against….
”If you weren’t so stupid you’d know that X is better for you than Y”
”Gosh it’s a shame that your ignorance is stopping you from seeing the truth”

It is not arrogance to suggest people should have access to better information.

Honestly of the two of us I think you’re the one that needs to broaden their news horizons. All the videos I saw of the rally were filled with different people from all walks of life.

Honest question, what about the rally is supposed to concern me? How is it fundamentally different than a Harris rally?

Was it the comedian who made a stupid joke? Yeah… I’m not going to get worked up about that.

Was it because it was at MSG and there was once a Nazi Rally there? Yeah there have been countless concerts, sporting events, and political events. (Shhh the Democrats have even held their national convention there)

Is it because Trump supporters were there… I mean yeah I guess if you assume all Trump supporters to be racists then I could see your issue… but I’m guessing you didn’t see videos from people who were there. My favorite was from the black gay man who was filming and telling the video “I have been told that I am in danger here as a gay black man…” his message got a little lost as he was getting high 5’s and the like.

Does it concern you that Harris is holding a rally on the very site of a KKK rally? No of course not and it shouldn’t.

Hate to pop your bubble there (It was a nice piece of fiction) but it was Hillary that did it. Thought her policies were bad….

@saltinesandcoffeecups

Was it because it was at MSG and there was once a Nazi Rally there? Yeah there have been countless concerts, sporting events, and political events. (Shhh the Democrats have even held their national convention there)

Of course not. I'd love to see a concert at MSG, it's got nothing to do with the venue at all.

If you didn't feel the event was rife with racist and hateful remarks then I don't think that you've actually watched the whole thing so I'm unsure whether you are speaking from an informed point of view on this one.

@saltinesandcoffeecups

If Harris had 34 felony convictions, would you honestly not say that should mean she can no longer run for the presidency?

Was it the comedian who made a stupid joke? Yeah… I’m not going to get worked up about that.
Well you wouldn't would you? Insulting millions of people doesn't get you worked up. Well... it obviously got them worked up didn't it? Hence the backlash.
It wasn't just that though, was it?

One speaker saying he had never been asked to a Nazi rally before.
Calling Hillary Clinton a sonofabitch along with other choice words
And the endless LIES!

I would link you to a fact checking site but I have a feeling you wouldn't be interested.

Nothing like a Harris/Walz Rally whatever you like to think

If they were the same felonies that Trump was convicted of yeah I’d have no problem with it.

Specifically, which ones?

Ask me on a day where my own sitting president didn’t call 1/2 the country “Garbage”. 🤣 And weirdly I couldn’t care less what they called Hillary… according to her I’m deplorable.

Jesus… now you want to debate my dead Granny’s politics? 🤣

Oh, I see you've swallowed the Fox News garbling of it.

And Hillary, oddly didn't say all Trump supporters were deplorable. She said he had lifted and given voice to the about half that* *were racist, sexist, homophobic and Islamophobic.

I guess you get to choose which half you fit into.

Well you said she switched because she didn't like Hillary's policies. I'm curious as to which ones. Only natural, since you used her as a talking point.

What a gift that was to you... Biden saying that but having listened to him it was not a patch on the vile spewing out of hate over hours at the MSG rally labelled by one of the speakers as a Nazi rally. (his words). That was something else.

Hillary Clinton using the 'deplorables' word... one word. What about the endless insults about everyone from Trump. If I tried to list them I'd be here till a week next Tuesday.

As far as the needing immigrants to work there is also dishonesty from the Republicans about this e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/31/child-labor-laws-republicans
So, a public rhetoric about immigrants coming to steal jobs/drive down wages etc. But also big move to deregulise labour as much as possible so that employers can pay very little to workers. Undocumented labour is ideal for that, especially if you can also employ children. I agree the democrats have behaved badly. If I was cynical I would say that the noise and outrageous things people like Trump say publically, are a deliberate move to drown out the genuine discourse that needs to happen (reasonable people's views won't be heard over all the crazy shouting and it makes it easier for normal people on both sides of the left/right divide to talk past each other).

(I also think similar cynical rhetoric is happening in the UK)