Or does she have squatters rights?

[Bettycrocker7]

We live in a 3 bed semi with no potential to move, extend or convert the attic.
Me and dh have one bedroom, dd13 and ds10 ( he has asd and adhd) share one room.
Dd 14 (she has adhd and asd) has her own box sized room.

Around two and a half years ago ds had the box room and the two girls shared.
My eldest dd was very difficult to share a room with. No emotional regulation, huge meltdowns, repeated unkind behaviour and she would stay up until the early hours.
After months of sleepless nights, we decided to put ds (then 8) and middle dd (then 10) in one room and give eldest dd her own bedroom in the box room. This did restore peace in the house for a while.

We've now reached a point where middle dd (13) needs her own bedroom. Her little brother is annoying her and she is embarrassed to have friends over.

We have found a company who will build us a floor to ceiling bunk bed as a room divider and split the one room into two box sized rooms. At the end of the bunk will be a doorframe with a fully opening and closing door. This will be cladded so that there are no gaps between the two sides of the bed - essentially creating two box rooms.

Middle dd has said she would like the existing orginal box room ( currently dd14 bedroom) to be her room, she is the only one out of the three who hasn't had use of it. She is also the only one of the three to have always had to share a room.

The original box room can only fit a shorty style bed which is perfect as middle dd is quite small. The two new box rooms fit full sized single mattresses which is better for dd14 as she is taller than me.
Where my eldest dd and youngest ds both have adhd and asd they are night owls staying up watching tv until the early hours. Middle dd loves routine and is often asleep by 10ish.

Eldest dd14 is refusing to even discuss a move into one of the newly built box rooms.
She is quite literally claiming squatters' rights. Generally speaking, it's often her way or no way, she isn't able to have calm discussions and will have a meltdown if I try to discuss it with her. When we first brought the topic up (in the car) she shouted a lot and repeatedly shouted no over and over and kicked the back of my chair quite hard.

My gut tells me that middle dd13 is due her turn in the existing box room. I think it's better for the two children that stay up all night to share a party wall rather than all three be awake because either one of them is bugging middle dd.

I also feel that as a family we have always prioritised dd14 needs and that she does need to accept that sometimes in life she can't always get her own way and needs to learn to compromise.

So aibu to insist that DD14 move into one of the newly built box rooms.which fits a bed more suitable for her size? Does DD14 have squatters' rights? Or does DD13 have a fair argument in that she needs some peace and quiet and her turn of the original box room? DD13 has been sharing and compromising for the last two years by sharing with her brother so I do feel her argument has a fair bit of weight to it

In that example, there is an opening roof window above to provide the required ventilation. On the first page the text reads:

"Lighting and ventilation were the problems here, so a substantial, cord-controlled rooflight was installed and a shaft built in the roof space between this and the bedroom ceiling."

Building Regs have changed since then and today you would also need to install fire doors as that would not count as a fire escape window.

If she doesn't learn to find ways of managing her emotions she will never be able to leave home though. She'll never be able to hold down a job, support herself, live independently.

It's vital that she develops some coping mechanisms for when things don't go her way.

At the end of the day, you're the parent, they are children living in your house, and you make the rules. However, if your 14 year old has ASD and ADHD then change is probably quite difficult for her so I'm not surprised she wouldn't entertain the idea when you initially proposed it. You may need to spend more time working with her to help her understand your decision. FWIW, I don't think that your middle child not having had the box room to herself is a particularly good reason for her to move into it. Converting the bedroom into two box rooms only inconveniences two kids, moving them all around disrupts all three.

Yes, and she is only going to be able to do that with support, and with a reduction in demands to enable her to regulate and cope with the essential ones.

I think I would just sleep in the lounge and give my kids a bedroom each. If there was no ASD involved I would make it work with them sharing but that's not the situation here. I also couldn't let my child sleep in a small windowless room that has no heating or ventilation even if he thought it would be fine. It's not legal and to not have ventilation and emergency escapes in bedrooms in the UK and it won't be healthy for him. In a fire he would not have any way of escaping. I would just see it as tax I pay because I took a gamble on the amount of kids vs bedrooms and sharing didn't work out.

I slept in the lounge for a couple of years because my autistic dc can’t cope with sharing. It was my decision to have four dc, and my responsibility to meet their needs.

Their dad still sleeps in the lounge at his house.

The girls need to share a room. If the separation isnt good enough to block out a tv it isn’t private enough for a teenage boy/girl to share which will soon be the situation if nothings happening.

Moving them every couple of years will be even more unsettling so I’d sort it out for once and done.

I don't think the eldest dd should be turfed out of her room in favour of your younger one. Hiw would she interpret that, and more importantly changing rooms is probably going to be very hard on sn autistic child.

Which is the biggest room in the house? Is it the living room? If so, could you partition the living room to create a bedroom and smaller living room? That room wouldn't legally require a window and, during the day, the bedroom and living room doors could be open to provide some natural light. Perhaps that could then become your bedroom?

The middle daughter was 'turfed' out of her room and made to share with her younger brother became of the older ones bullying behaviour?

She's not going to be able to do it at all if her parents capitulate every time she has a tantrum. The main point of parenthood is to raise your children to be adults who are capable of functioning in society.

I posted one such comment that used the word "brat", and I regret using that word because I did not see the part where the elder DD had autism.

That said, it still doesn't change the fact that - objectively speaking - her behaviour towards her younger sister can be described as bullying, and the younger daughter deserves to not have her life dictated by her sister's demands and aggression.

Personally I would leave DD14 in her room. The change for her would be almost unbearable, which would explain her reaction. She obviously has problems with regulating her emotions and isn't able to communicate them in a palatable way. And, tbh, I don't think your other DD's desire for a bit more space and privacy trumps your other DD's mental wellbeing. Especially as she's really struggling with school. Her room is her room. It's her space. Don't make her home another place where she isn't comfortable.

Both my kids are ND, as am I, and there times when I have to make decisions which aren't based on what's fair. Often things are downright unfair for one of them.

The reason we have building regulations is to determine exactly what is and isn't legal to do in your own home. Just because 'its your own home' it doesn't make it legal to create inner rooms with no natural light, purge or background ventilation, or secondary fire escape window.

Sometimes I despair for the years I spent training to be a qualified and registered architect when there are enough Mumsnet 'experts' out there who obviously know better.

But it isn’t a tantrum. It’s a meltdown, which is a neurological response to overload, not a behavioural trick to secure what she wants. Completely different.

I also disagree that the main point of parenthood is to raise independent adults who are capable of functioning in society. Do you realise that in saying that, you are dismissing children for whom that will never be achievable and dismissing parenting them as pointless?

The OP needs to balance the needs of three children, and do whats best for all of them.
Which sometimes means that one child will not get whats best for them. And sometimes that is the child with additional needs.

But it isn’t a tantrum. It’s a meltdown, which is a neurological response to overload, not a behavioural trick to secure what she wants. Completely different.

It might be a meltdown, but also it might not be. Neurodivergent children are quite capable of having tantrums.

Meltdowns happen because the child is facing an alien situation, is overwhelmed and can’t cope. Unfortunately a lot of parents avoid meltdowns by giving the child what they want / allowing them to avoid the ‘scary thing’, instead of teaching them how to handle it. Which means that the poor child (and everyone around them) is hostage to their emotions for the rest of their lives.

Don’t give in. Don’t punish either. Make reasonable adjustments (emphasis on reasonable) and teach children, through repeated exposure and close guidance, how to cope with situations that challenge them. This needs to be done before the child hits their teens ideally, but 14 is better late than never, and it will only get harder. So begin now. She needs to move rooms. It is non-negotioable, you will help her if she wants to be helped, and do it in a way that is least upsetting for her, but it is happening.

Which is exactly what I said. Though I’d hazard a guess that a 14 year old screaming ‘no’ and kicking the seat, is having a meltdown. The car maybe wasn’t the best place to discuss it.

Meltdowns happen because the child’s brain is overwhelmed by sensory input, which can be input from their own emotions / anxiety. The ‘higher functions’ of their brain shut down as a result and they become unable to process or reason. They are acting from the primitive parts of the brain.

It's sad so many people didn't get your joke 🙈

Middle DD should get the room as it sounds like her sleep will be disturbed otherwise

The car is one of the worst possible places, because the autistic person will feel trapped as well as overwhelmed.

The only thing that worked with DS2 (15, AuDHD and much more prone to meltdowns than his older brother) was time and repetition, building tolerance over time. The approach (which an excellent play therapist supported us with) went something like this.

Introduce change. Meltdown.

We go "ok, we can see this is too much for you right now. We'll let you calm down and we'll talk more another time".

No promises of not doing the change but also no reprimands - we let him go calm down, because he can't take anything in while he's melting down.

Try again next time he's calm and able to talk. Maybe we get a little further next time because the seed is already planted. Stop when he melts down, allow him to re-regulate.

Rinse and repeat.

It's tedious, I know. But expecting to be able to just dictate to an autistic child and go "this is how it is, deal with it" just isn't realistic, especially if it's not how things have been done previously.

I also take the view that it doesn't really matter whether it's a tantrum or a meltdown really. What matters is, the child is dysregulated and cannot be reasoned with at that time. The priority at the time is re-regulation, not continuing to force the issue, or getting into a battle of wills. But the child also needs to know that avoiding the change won't be an option. That's done through remaining neutral and just saying "we'll talk another time" rather than trying to force the issue there and then or placate them.

It requires the parent to be ok with the idea that the child may melt down, and be able to attend to the meltdown without getting into any discussion about the cause.

"as a family we have always prioritised dd14 needs".

That was your first mistake. You need to decide what will work best and put your foot down.

Meltdown, tantrum, the key point is neither should result in a changed outcome just because of fear of the behaviour.

That said, whether it is a tantrum or a meltdown I do always think whether the child is making an actual important point and if so might change my decision not because of the behaviour but because they made a valid point.

But no, fear of a meltdown is not a good reason to prioritise one child over the others.

This.
It will be hard for a while but seems the fair thing to do.

Not withstanding ASD/ ADHD diagnoses which is unforeseeable why did you choose to have 3 kids when you can’t afford to have a 4 bed house (or move to one?).

this is on you, so I think you and your husband should go on a sofa bed and give the kids a room each. It’s only for a few years till oldest moves out. Splitting rooms up sounds awful if not unlawful (fire escape, need for ventilation and light).

your two youngest are opposite sex and shouldn’t be sharing a room irrespective of ND. Children don’t chose to be born - this on the parents.

This!