Or does she have squatters rights?

[Bettycrocker7]

We live in a 3 bed semi with no potential to move, extend or convert the attic.
Me and dh have one bedroom, dd13 and ds10 ( he has asd and adhd) share one room.
Dd 14 (she has adhd and asd) has her own box sized room.

Around two and a half years ago ds had the box room and the two girls shared.
My eldest dd was very difficult to share a room with. No emotional regulation, huge meltdowns, repeated unkind behaviour and she would stay up until the early hours.
After months of sleepless nights, we decided to put ds (then 8) and middle dd (then 10) in one room and give eldest dd her own bedroom in the box room. This did restore peace in the house for a while.

We've now reached a point where middle dd (13) needs her own bedroom. Her little brother is annoying her and she is embarrassed to have friends over.

We have found a company who will build us a floor to ceiling bunk bed as a room divider and split the one room into two box sized rooms. At the end of the bunk will be a doorframe with a fully opening and closing door. This will be cladded so that there are no gaps between the two sides of the bed - essentially creating two box rooms.

Middle dd has said she would like the existing orginal box room ( currently dd14 bedroom) to be her room, she is the only one out of the three who hasn't had use of it. She is also the only one of the three to have always had to share a room.

The original box room can only fit a shorty style bed which is perfect as middle dd is quite small. The two new box rooms fit full sized single mattresses which is better for dd14 as she is taller than me.
Where my eldest dd and youngest ds both have adhd and asd they are night owls staying up watching tv until the early hours. Middle dd loves routine and is often asleep by 10ish.

Eldest dd14 is refusing to even discuss a move into one of the newly built box rooms.
She is quite literally claiming squatters' rights. Generally speaking, it's often her way or no way, she isn't able to have calm discussions and will have a meltdown if I try to discuss it with her. When we first brought the topic up (in the car) she shouted a lot and repeatedly shouted no over and over and kicked the back of my chair quite hard.

My gut tells me that middle dd13 is due her turn in the existing box room. I think it's better for the two children that stay up all night to share a party wall rather than all three be awake because either one of them is bugging middle dd.

I also feel that as a family we have always prioritised dd14 needs and that she does need to accept that sometimes in life she can't always get her own way and needs to learn to compromise.

So aibu to insist that DD14 move into one of the newly built box rooms.which fits a bed more suitable for her size? Does DD14 have squatters' rights? Or does DD13 have a fair argument in that she needs some peace and quiet and her turn of the original box room? DD13 has been sharing and compromising for the last two years by sharing with her brother so I do feel her argument has a fair bit of weight to it

@Fireflies8

The house is rented....HA.

Also....why should the child who is not ND miss out again? Is that what her childhood will be with ND siblings.....her needs coming last every time? What is that teaching her? Being middle child is hard enough

Quite. It always makes me laugh when people say parents sleep in the lounge. So as the person who pays for about half of everything, gets the worst room for sleeping in the house AND l have to share with another person (my husband)?! I have a neurodiversity diagnosis and am perimenopausal so I don’t sleep that well already. Honestly children sharing a room isn’t the end of the world unless one of them is antisocial or they are different sexes / not super young. But it seems OP has a solution they can go with

You as the parent decide what works best!

slightly missing the point but there’s a great episode of your home made perfect where they divide up a room a bit like this

Give it to your middle dd. I have 3 children and my middle is by far the most passive and easy to please, I have noticed at times this means she is dealt the short straw just because it’s ’easier.’ But it’s also not fair, so I have been making a conscious effort to not let her back down. It makes sense because of the bed size & the noise - middle dd gets the single room.

Your older daughter is acting like a spoilt brat and a bully. Kicking your seat while you're driving at the age of 14? She ABSOLUTELY needs to learn that life can't always go her way. For her own sake (it'll be a much steeper learning curve if she has to learn this in her first job), and for the sake of her siblings, who deserve to not have their lives dictated by her.
Absolutely this, she should absolutely not be getting ferried about to anywhere other than school for that dangerous behaviour.
what consequences does she get for her 'unkind behavior' other than her demands met?

It's ok to decide this but you can't just spring it on your dd. I'd give her a moving date. Involve her in plans for things she can do to her new room. Found a way to engage her. Or last resort, bribery

Big girl pants on time.

if she kicks off, she kicks off.

if she kicks off and wins you’re actively teaching her that kicking off is a good tactic.

Obviously the squatters rights issue is a nonsense - you surely can't believe otherwise?

Personally I wouldn't move the oldest daughter. Rightly or wrongly, the oldest child tends to end up with the best room, and few families rotate rooms for fairness. I also think (speaking as a middle child) that your middle child's wish to oust her older sister is as much about sibling rivalry as anything else.

There is no perfect solution here, and as long as the two new "rooms" both have a window and door and reasonable space and privacy, I think you are doing the best you can.

Is your DD14's box room super different to the box rooms you're about to create? If not, what about involving your middle daughter in picking out her new bed/dresser/decorations/shade of paint?

Pros - your eldest sees what you're offering and wants the same for her room. You say yes - IF she swaps. If she doesn't swap, your eldest keeps the old furniture while your middle daughter gets to be treated and make decisions about her furniture/decor - you can big this up as "let's turn your digs into a proper teen area" and use it as bonding.

Cons - cost. IKEA hacks can sometimes help defray this, though.

Good luck. My DD has ADHD and it's not easy.

Exactly! We as kids had to move bedrooms to allow each person a go at the biggest room.

Absolutely the oldest must take turns in the less good room.

Bad behaviour doesn't trump the other children's needs.

Isn't it illegal for a boy and girl {siblings} to share above a certain age?

She is a teenager with ASD. And given you've known her diagnosis for a while, and girls generally have a later diagnosis, I'm assuming her characteristics were quite apparent. You'll know the likely outcomes of "just insist" and that whilst you might get her to change rooms, it won't be without a lot of angst for the whole family.

Does she have a tendency towards a PDA profile? As she'll be feeling a loss of autonomy over the situation - you telling her she's changing rooms - and she feels her safety is threatened by that. Even without PDA, she may feel very strongly about change and throw teenage hormones into the mix and you'll get explosive bebehaviour. People not living with an autistic person may wrongly assume a meltdown is just a temper tantrum. It's much worse and can involve physical harm to both the person with autism and those around them. It's distressing for all involved, and not something you want to deal with if there is any alternative.

The only way I've found to successfully navigate PDA behaviour is to let my teen think she's come to the decision on her own terms. It's slow, painful and goes against every fibre of my being, but it works for us.

I don't know how to translate it to your specific situation, but if I need DD to complete schoolwork, rather than saying "DD, you need to do this Maths and English", I'll clear a space in the lounge where she sits, and leave the Maths and English work there, along with a preferred activity. And I stay quiet. 9/10 she'll get on and do the work and come to show me.

Perhaps leaving plans of the rooms lying around, pictures of new beds and bedding that you think she'd like? But without pointing it out or making suggestions. Let her mull it over. See if she comes and asks "if I change rooms can I have xyz in my room" and be prepared to say yes, or at least "I hadn't considered that, let me think about it".

I'm aware I'm going to get comments of how the heck will my child cope in the real world if I'm tiptoeing around her. I'm hanging onto the hope that once she can be medicated for her anxiety and receive ND appropriate therapy, she'll recognise not everything is a threat and be able to manage her emotions better. But child mental health services being what they are, we're 18 months in with no sign of support just yet so this is how I manage to get us both through the day relatively peacefully.

Why are you letting a 14 year old rule the house?

I’m clearly in the minority but I’m on your eldest daughters side in this. Your younger children clearly need separate rooms, which you are providing, so their situation is improving. I don’t see why your eldest has to move just because the middle thinks it is their turn to have the box room. A)this way the eldest child is ‘losing’ while the other 2 are ‘winning’ B) rooms don’t usually work this way, most people don’t take it in turns to have a room C) losing your room is a lot for a NT 14 year old to deal with let alone an autistic one.

Because this seems to be the way of the word {UK anyway}

We had to rotate rooms- the beautiful large sunny one and the smaller one..we had lovely attic rooms which we weren't allowed to used as bedrooms because of fire risk.. Dad said it would be a firetrap- so basically a whole floor unused as bedrooms.

The house was sold when Dad died, and the new owners turned the attics into a bedroom with en suite.

I thought the rules were that boys and girls of a certain age weren’t allowed to share a room?

And she doesn’t have “squatters rights” she wouldn’t even be able to live alone at her age, so “squatters rights” wouldn’t even come into play!

Also, if the room is being divided, shouldn’t the girls share and the little lad have his own room? As the room is being divided, they hopefully shouldn’t annoy each other.

Good luck in whatever you do. 🩷

@Macaroninecklace

Being autistic doesn't give you the right to be horrible to others or get special treatment over siblings. Yes I have an autistic child (now an adult) and I what I see on Mumsnet and in real life is parents using medical diagnosis as excuses for behaviour which in reality is simply a young person wanting their own way. Parents often have to make difficult decisions

I thought that - and things won't get any better as they get older.
I'd say split the largest room - that may mean parents move to 2nd room, and son gets boxroom. Don't see what else you can do unless it's possible to create a room for parents downstairs.

ASD is a spectrum.
My DD would need building up to this over several conversations- I would be discussing the benefits a lot!
Only you know where she is and if she can adapt.

Can you ask the company doing the work to build a thicker/ brick wall when they do the room partition, so minimal noise gets through the new walls? Or ask a builder to add an extra wall of bricks, or soundproofing. It would then make little difference which room your younger DD is in. Any TVs or music in bedrooms, headphones on after 10pm.

Just a thought but I'd give the original boxroom to your son. He's the youngest and presumably the smallest. Then split the other bedroom with the (solid) party wall between the 2 girls. Headphones for both ( so stops music/tv noise) Explain bed is longer , own choice of decoration , new linen, Yay yay. Decision made . This is what is happening. Cue drama but it won't last forever ( and yes I do understand about ND).

A lot of the posts on here are vile and fail to take into account the fact the DD is autistic.

Yes, she should probably change room but it needs to be handled very carefully because of her resistance to change and difficulty transitioning. At the very least she needs the change explained in micro detail and supported through the process.

It might be worth asking to be allowed to go on the exchange list now because of your DDs disabilities meaning she can't share. Councils would allow an extra bedroom in those circumstances so I'm sure they can make the same allowances.

Does she get DLA? That can back up your request as can a letter from CAMHS.