Or does she have squatters rights?

[Bettycrocker7]

We live in a 3 bed semi with no potential to move, extend or convert the attic.
Me and dh have one bedroom, dd13 and ds10 ( he has asd and adhd) share one room.
Dd 14 (she has adhd and asd) has her own box sized room.

Around two and a half years ago ds had the box room and the two girls shared.
My eldest dd was very difficult to share a room with. No emotional regulation, huge meltdowns, repeated unkind behaviour and she would stay up until the early hours.
After months of sleepless nights, we decided to put ds (then 8) and middle dd (then 10) in one room and give eldest dd her own bedroom in the box room. This did restore peace in the house for a while.

We've now reached a point where middle dd (13) needs her own bedroom. Her little brother is annoying her and she is embarrassed to have friends over.

We have found a company who will build us a floor to ceiling bunk bed as a room divider and split the one room into two box sized rooms. At the end of the bunk will be a doorframe with a fully opening and closing door. This will be cladded so that there are no gaps between the two sides of the bed - essentially creating two box rooms.

Middle dd has said she would like the existing orginal box room ( currently dd14 bedroom) to be her room, she is the only one out of the three who hasn't had use of it. She is also the only one of the three to have always had to share a room.

The original box room can only fit a shorty style bed which is perfect as middle dd is quite small. The two new box rooms fit full sized single mattresses which is better for dd14 as she is taller than me.
Where my eldest dd and youngest ds both have adhd and asd they are night owls staying up watching tv until the early hours. Middle dd loves routine and is often asleep by 10ish.

Eldest dd14 is refusing to even discuss a move into one of the newly built box rooms.
She is quite literally claiming squatters' rights. Generally speaking, it's often her way or no way, she isn't able to have calm discussions and will have a meltdown if I try to discuss it with her. When we first brought the topic up (in the car) she shouted a lot and repeatedly shouted no over and over and kicked the back of my chair quite hard.

My gut tells me that middle dd13 is due her turn in the existing box room. I think it's better for the two children that stay up all night to share a party wall rather than all three be awake because either one of them is bugging middle dd.

I also feel that as a family we have always prioritised dd14 needs and that she does need to accept that sometimes in life she can't always get her own way and needs to learn to compromise.

So aibu to insist that DD14 move into one of the newly built box rooms.which fits a bed more suitable for her size? Does DD14 have squatters' rights? Or does DD13 have a fair argument in that she needs some peace and quiet and her turn of the original box room? DD13 has been sharing and compromising for the last two years by sharing with her brother so I do feel her argument has a fair bit of weight to it

Have people really never heard the term squatters rights used as a joke. …. Like my husband had squatters rights over the sofa because he’s there so often.

Of course she doesn’t think her daughter has legal rights🤦‍♀️

You’re doing your eldest a disservice by allowing her to call the shots. Once she gets out into the world, working, her employer/work colleagues will not be tolerating the behaviour or pandering to her meltdowns or demands. You need to teach her that she’s not always going to be able to manipulate things to her advantage.

Do you think the younger dd finds it a joke that everything has to revolve around her ds demands? That she gets bullied by her and has to accept and put up with her violent behaviours and tantrums if her needs are not immediately met?

…..no 😂

So you think it's funny? Bizarre to be laughing really.

The standard room allowance rules would dictate that your daughters are supposed to share a room until your oldest turns 16, but as she is not able to share a room due to her disability, you can argue that you should be entitled to 4 bedrooms (ie separate rooms for each of the children) now. Do you claim DLA for your oldest? If she gets DLA that would support the argument that she needs her own room. If I were you I would apply to the housing register for a 4 bedroom place.

And in the meantime your plan for the bedrooms sounds fine. I hope you can ignore the ableist comments on here about your DD, they are awful (as the parent of an autistic child i find them upsetting, and they're not even talking about my child).

Maybe post in SEN parenting for more advice on supporting her with the transition?

I think your comprehension is funny or for some reason you’ve got your knickers in a twist over something quite strange. Clearly I’m commenting that posters haven’t seen the expression squatters rights used in a jokey (commonly used where I’m from) way.

I haven’t got an opinion on the families situation other than the poor mum is trying her best in a difficult situation.

She already has a tenancy.....she can look at a mutual exchange if she's given the go ahead to look for a 4 bed

They don't come up that often either

She isn't managing at school at all. She has low attendance due to school refusal and is repeatedly in isolation or suspended. I'm very worried about gcses and we have early help and camhs engaging with school trying to find the right way through for her.

Clearly school is not meeting her needs which is probably why you have so many problems at home. Has the school applied for an EHC Needs Assessment?

She can tantrum all she likes that shouldn't have any impact on the outcome

Treating someone well with autism means being understanding about their meltdowns. It doesn't mean letting them get their way because you are afraid of their meltdowns.

Everyone in the house has needs that should be balanced.

Alternatively is there any living space downstairs that could be used as a bedroom?

I think there are going to be a lot of adults in the future who are mad with their parents because their needs were always put behind those of a sibling with autism.

I have great sympathy for all the children in this situation because I don't agree with making kids share rooms at all. I feel the most sorry for your middle DD though. She's spent her life being bullied by her sister and is the only one to not have had her own room, plus a lot of posters are skimming over the fact that her brother's TV keeps her awake. Older DD might be ND but she needs to learn she can't just scream and kick people when she doesn't get her own way. She will find that out the hard way when someone punches her in the face one day.

There are very few 4 bedroom HA places. In some councils you can check on their website how many they let out in the last year and how long the people had been waiting for them. I remember checking ours about 10 years ago and it being something ridiculous like three 4 properties (over the entire council area) in the last year and the average waiting time was several years. I had a friend with 5 children in a 2 bedroom council flat at the time.
Just because you may qualify for one, doesn't mean it will happen.

They are already suitably housed

It's only by mutual exchange that they will get a 4 bed. And only then if you are given the go ahead

It's not easy

4 beds are rare and you have to be able to swap

Where in my post did I say it would happen?!

it's very area dependant: in my area there is a huge shortage and in other areas there is more social housing available.

But it's still worth getting on the waiting list and finding out what the wait is likely to be in your area.

OP already said she was planning to register when her oldest turns 16, I was saying she should register now and not wait (and other posters said the same)

Plus you can explore the option of mutual exchange but you can only exchange for a 4 bed if the council/HA accepts that you need 4 beds, so applying to the register and getting them to accept that the household needs 4 beds will tick that box.

@AnotherEmma what waiting list are you talking about??

They are not actually suitably housed, they have 3 bedrooms and they need 4. In my area (with huge demand and very little availability of social housing) it is possible to (re)apply to the housing register if you need an extra bedroom, and you would be in band B (band A being the highest priority). That doesn't mean you'd get anything suitable without a long wait, due to limited availability, but the council does at least acknowledge the housing need.

As it stands they are suitably housed.

Until they submit PROOF they need a 4 bed and it is accepted then they are not going anywhere

Maybe they have tried hence now going down the other routes

Larger housing stock is going to dwindle very quickly if everyone says they have a child with ASD therefore need extra bedroom....

No, she doesn't have a right to her own private space.
It sounds as though you've spoilt and indulged her and she now cannot cope with being told no, that is on you. Being neurodiverse is no excuse for tantrums at her age.

How is that putting her siblings’ needs second? It’s putting the sibling’s needs first, whilst supporting the autistic child to cope with the change.

There are already a lot of late diagnosed autistic adults who suffer huge issues due to the fact that their needs weren’t adequately supported.

Oh dear.

I think thsy, in your situation and not in a position to just move house under your own steam, I'd be getting a sofa bed for the living room and sleeping in their with my husband. The children can each have their own room then.

It's not ideal but it could work until something more suitable is found.

I find with my child staying calm, being really factual and playing a bit silly can sort of head off the meltdowns, although appreciate you know what you’re dealing with with your own child. So for me it’s very much a ‘when you move rooms’ ‘packing for the room move. ‘I’m a butterfly! Am I a butterfly? No? Well, you’re not a squatter. But you might be closer to being one if you slept in the shed for at least 10 years. once you’re 18 probably and old enough to claim rights. I’d have to look it up. Do you want to look into it with me?’

or: dessert time, icecream! Everyone who believes in taking your turn, tell me what flavour you’d like. Anyone who doesn’t want a turn may sit out. A lot of emphasis on fair, since it will be dd2s room because that’s fair.

Absolutely! What happens when this child gets into the ‘real’ world and finds out that not everything goes exactly the way she wants it.

How is this child being prepared for later on life when all she has to do is throw a tantrum to get her way, treats everyone however she feels like it, has no respect for her parents and doesn’t seem to live by any rules (it’s on you that she is up till the wee hours watching tv).

Being neurodiverse isn’t an excuse for everything. I know many neurodiverse kids who are polite, follow then rules and know what is expected. Sure they may see the world differently but that doesn’t give you or them an excuse for acting however they want.

BTW - you may want to consider if you don’t seriously nip this on the bud now they may be living with you for a long time. Getting a job may be difficult given what you have said.

You are the parent. Time for some rules, boundaries and consequences.

This thread is an excellent example of the kind of judgment encountered by children with a demand avoidant profile of autism, and their parents.

The fact that so many people are calling the child a "brat" and mumsnet is allowing those posts is making me feel sick.

OP, I hope you can ignore them - and post in SEN parenting next time! AIBU is full of ignorant, judgemental people at the best of times and it seems that any mention of neurodivergence brings out the worst in them.