To think gentle parenting is actually permissive

[theedgeoftheforest]

Even though those who favour it are very insistent it isn’t - well, it is, isn’t it?

Its all ‘they have no impulse control’ (they do) ‘you’re expecting too much’ (you’re not) ‘the teachers reward and sanction, complain to the school’ (nonsense.)

I know post after post will insist that gentle parenting does have boundaries and to be fair I see gentle parents talk a lot about boundaries but they don’t seem to have a clue how to implement them and their kids run rings round them.

Because lazy and overly permissive parents try to excuse the issues they (and their offspring) cause by hijacking the notion of 'gentle parenting' and claiming that is what they don't do...

I agree op it's a load of crap! You can always spot the 'gentle parented' kids a mile off and not in a good way.

Yes kids need love and affection but they also need firm boundaries, consequences and to learn that they can't always have their way.

Quite. Yet none of them can actually articulate exactly what type of parenting that would be, or most closely align to. I wonder why that is....? 🤔

This thread won't go well OP.

You will get lots of posts explaining that gentle parenting is the bees knees and that the problem is that people misuse the term/fail to understand what GP is and that it does have boundaries.

They are not wrong....but the problem remains that there are cohort of parents that have latched onto this approach without fully understanding it or using it as an excuse to "free range" their children and not parent at all.

Where I live you can definitely see the consequences of this. Plenty I might say of parents doing a great job (well as much as any of us have done) and then those (thankfully a minority) whose children run rings round them and seem to think poor behaviour and implementing social norms (age appropriate) is an affront to their child's "needs" and that "expressing themselves" top trumps literally everything - even at times their own child's safety.

It's crazy, selfish and stupid but fundamentally it's not gentle parenting but shit parenting.

There is a difference though between meltdown and tantrums.

Gentle parenting, attachment parenting, are not the same thing as permissive parenting, but there are lots of people who think they are (both those who claim to practise ‘gentle parenting’ and also those who don’t).

Permissive parenting and authoritarian parenting can both produce kids who don’t understand or respect boundaries. Authoritative parenting, whether “gentle” or not, is less likely to, because boundaries are firmly maintained, reasonable, and appropriate.

As I said, I have autistic children so when I say meltdown, that’s what I mean. A tantrum is perfectly healthy young child development as well.

Well at least you've read thousands of Facebook posts on the subject.

I prefer to term it respectful parenting. I think gentle parenting has too much bundled up with now to unpick and no matter your interpretation of gentle, the belief is that gentle parenting = permissive, even if that wasn't originally its origin or intention.

Janet Lansbury's take on RIE parenting is probably the closest 'method' I follow, but really most people pick and choose from various 'methods' depending on what resonates with them and importantly what actually works with their child. There's no cheat code to parenting. But we've settled on nothing really punitive, treating DDs respectfully, giving them agency over their own lives where we can, boundaries over the things we think are important but not anything we find excessive or unimportant, etc.

Ineffective parents are ineffective parents, whether they go to one end of the discipline spectrum or another.

I distrust anyone who claims to have a "parenting style". It almost always means they take something to an uncomfortable extreme.

You're not just a parent, you're a person (and so is your kid). A kid needs true interaction with a real person who loves them, not a walking guidebook with preprogrammed, empathetic responses. I no more have a parenting style than I have a friendship style. I'm a generally kind, easygoing and fun person. I love my kid more than anything and enjoy being her parent, so on the whole I have no idea why I would punish her or send her away if we can comfort each other or talk things through instead. But on some days, I'm busy or tired and don't want to deal with shit. And on some days, my kid can be really annoying. And then my patience runs out, and I will send them upstairs or outside, or take away that damn bird toy that keeps whistling whenever you shake it and put it on top of the shelves without a word. My kid has no problems understanding this and they seem well-adjusted so far.

To me gentle parenting is being polite to your children. It's being kind and empathetic to their needs. Some parents are so unbelievably rude to their kids I don't know how they expect them to grow up with manners!

My girls are 18 and 14 now and super kind, calm and polite. Maybe I just got lucky?

There are acres of shit parents out there, not all of them are permissive or gentle parenting, they just aren’t up to the job.

There are lots of people who think they’re gentle parents but actually they’re been permissive. Clear, consistent boundaries with consequences is central to gentle parenting.

It's a completely meaningless term now.

It just about marginally made sense about twenty years ago when Supernanny was seen as revolutionary because she showed you how to not smack (but pointing your finger in a child's face and making them sit in shame on a "naughty chair" was fine!) but these days anything that makes sense that was ever labelled "gentle parenting" is just totally normal good up to date parenting, and doesn't need a special label. And then there is a lot of batshit competitive more-gentle-than-you stuff on algorithm driven social media and this definitely veers into permissive, particularly when it's centred around all the things you're not supposed to do (which would be hilariously ironic if it didn't have actual consequences for real children).

I also think there's a huge middle road problem with parenting advice - a lot of the original gentle parenting stuff was developed as a framework because apparently most parents at that time tended towards being too authoritarian. But the demographic who are attracted to something called "gentle" are probably not the ones who are leaning towards the authoritarian side! And if you're naturally permissive and reading stuff about how to listen to your child more and give in more and evaluate whether your boundaries are really necessary and be less strict, then it's more likely to make you veer off the path entirely.

In general though forget labels and there is some really really excellent parenting material out there now. I would just always suggest that anyone stick to long form content - books, podcasts, or IRL conversations. Take everything else online, especially single issue groups, and anything algorithm driven, with a massive pinch of salt.

Before I decided to parent in a more 'gentle' manner I would go to bed wracked with guilt each night for shouting and loosing my cool with my child. Promising myself to be a better parent tomorrow. When I changed my parenting style my relationship with my children improved for the better significantly. I found so much more enjoyment from spending time with my children. For my children the naughty step just inflamed the situation.

No no no! Gentle parenting is massively misunderstood and misused.

Fair enough, I did not mean cause offence if I did. As an autistic woman, I have become very frustrated at term meltdown being used for tantrum. it is healthy for children to learn boundaries and tantrums are part of that cycle of emotional regulation.

Neurodivergent children and adults are guilty of having tantrums if they cannot get what they want. It is not always a meltdown. Neurodivergent individuals also need to beware of boundaries and acceptable behaviour in society. Unfortunately in my professional experience there are still parents excusing their child’s behaviours due to the child or young person being neurodivergent.

THIS☝
I did gentle parenting and my very very firm boundaries were called "cruel" and "mean" by permissive parents. Guess who has 2 very happy well adjusted adult DC with no MH issues and great potential?

Perhaps they don't feel the need for a label?

I never did I just got on with trying to parented the kids I actually got with all their foibles and uniqueness to best of my ability within the confines life presented us with.

I have looked at techniques from how we were parenting from books from other parents and used what worked for my child in particular situations all without need of a label.

Problem with labels is then people get prescriptive - most decent parent just get on with parenting.

Only parents I've heard describe themselves as doing gentle parenting do seem to be the ones struggling - with out of control kids and not teaching social norms - treating shops as playgrounds and loud devices on public transport with no concern for others - which does generate public perception that frankly it's not great parenting.

I completely agree. I actually handed in an official complaint to the DWP when they described my son’s meltdowns as ‘tantrums when things don’t go his way’. My response was, he does have tantrums like any other child but that wasn’t relevant to a DLA claim, hence why I specifically said ‘meltdowns’.

That sounds like the parenting I was brought up with.

I think there is a problem of definition here. I think there are as many forms of gentle parenting as there are parents who believe that's what they're doing. Attaching the label is grist to the mill of the hang 'em high brigade, who like to harrumph about all things 'soft'.

I know people who 'gentle parent', according to their lights anyway, whose child regularly behaves very roughly, is physically aggressive with younger siblings, makes mean comments to them, and faces no consequences. In fact, behaviour that leaves the younger siblings bruised and crying results in a hug for the aggressor (who is not ND). They seem to believe in the 'noble savage' concept of Rousseau, and that their oldest will one day have a spontaneous moral epiphany. Meanwhile, the younger three have developed the habit of prophylactically apologising every time they think they've put a foot wrong with their older sibling. I don't know how all of this will pan out. I have my suspicions, but maybe I'm a pessimist.

Are you really taking credit for the fact that your children have "no MH issues"?

What are you saying about those of us whose children do?

From what I've witnessed IRL it doesn't equip children for the real world and it doesn't seem to produce happy resilient children. There's a reason why it goes against most people's instincts and they have to 'fight' to be 'gentle parents'. To do it completely properly would literally ruin your daily life. Just one example, You couldn't 'wait for DC to get dressed when they decide too' and 'be late for school' as the natural consequence, as that would then make you late for work. What I witness is people trying to 'be gentle' up to a certain point, and then losing their shit anyway. That is completely confusing for a child who doesn't know which version of their parent they are getting. I don't think it makes happy parents either, as it tends to lead to people beating themselves up when they aren't 'gentle', or they remove themselves entirely from any situation when they feel they're going to lose their shit. I don't think that's good for children either as all it's teaching is conflict avoidance. The reality of life is that you have to learn to deal with conflict and you learn that from your parents. I think it's important for parents to lose their temper, and apologise. Not act like some sort of stepford wife around your kids.

Oh get down from your ivory tower. People live differently to you, doesn't make them wrong.

I come from a culture where it's very common to cane your children. Every time there is a local article about it, 90% of the comments are from people who were caned and said it worked for them and they will do it to their children for their own good. It's true that their whole society is on the whole compliant and law-abiding.

Just because something "works" in the moment doesn't mean it's right.