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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think gentle parenting is actually permissive

257 replies

theedgeoftheforest · 19/10/2024 17:04

Even though those who favour it are very insistent it isn’t - well, it is, isn’t it?

Its all ‘they have no impulse control’ (they do) ‘you’re expecting too much’ (you’re not) ‘the teachers reward and sanction, complain to the school’ (nonsense.)

I know post after post will insist that gentle parenting does have boundaries and to be fair I see gentle parents talk a lot about boundaries but they don’t seem to have a clue how to implement them and their kids run rings round them.

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MrsSunshine2b · 21/10/2024 17:47

3WildOnes · 21/10/2024 17:22

That's not research. Sarah Ockwell-Smith is just a parent who wrote a book. I don't think she has an academic background in child development.

SOS invented the term gentle parenting.

If you're following gentle parenting, you're following a method first set forth by SOS and still underpinned by her principles. It's an authoritative method. If you are following gentle parenting but not bothering with all the parts of it which make it authoritative rather than permissive, then this thread is about you, not for you.

We know that in the vast majority of studies into parenting, authoritative parenting has been considered to have the best outcomes, and we also know that smacking has been shown to have negative outcomes by almost every metric over thousands of studies.

Whether some parents who are otherwise authoritative and respectful resort to smacking is irrelevant to the fact that a good parent, whether authoritative or not, does not abuse their children.

3WildOnes · 21/10/2024 17:57

MrsSunshine2b · 21/10/2024 17:47

SOS invented the term gentle parenting.

If you're following gentle parenting, you're following a method first set forth by SOS and still underpinned by her principles. It's an authoritative method. If you are following gentle parenting but not bothering with all the parts of it which make it authoritative rather than permissive, then this thread is about you, not for you.

We know that in the vast majority of studies into parenting, authoritative parenting has been considered to have the best outcomes, and we also know that smacking has been shown to have negative outcomes by almost every metric over thousands of studies.

Whether some parents who are otherwise authoritative and respectful resort to smacking is irrelevant to the fact that a good parent, whether authoritative or not, does not abuse their children.

She may have come up with the term gentle parenting but she did not come up with the term 'authoritative parenting ', which is an academic term, I haven't read her book but I have read the research on authoritative parenting. I'm not saying that gentle parenting can't be authoritative I am saying that authoritative parenting absolutely can include smacking and other punishments. I personally think gentle parenting can fall into either authoritative or permissive but is somewhere between the two. I linked upthread to the only study that I know if that has looked into gentle parenting in terms of parenting styles. You can read it. You posted the APA definition of authoritative parenting without reading any of the research behind it. The book that the APA published on authoritative parenting obviously goes into much more detail.

MrsSunshine2b · 21/10/2024 18:05

3WildOnes · 21/10/2024 17:57

She may have come up with the term gentle parenting but she did not come up with the term 'authoritative parenting ', which is an academic term, I haven't read her book but I have read the research on authoritative parenting. I'm not saying that gentle parenting can't be authoritative I am saying that authoritative parenting absolutely can include smacking and other punishments. I personally think gentle parenting can fall into either authoritative or permissive but is somewhere between the two. I linked upthread to the only study that I know if that has looked into gentle parenting in terms of parenting styles. You can read it. You posted the APA definition of authoritative parenting without reading any of the research behind it. The book that the APA published on authoritative parenting obviously goes into much more detail.

I'm sure you're right and it's the inventor of the term gentle parenting, and everyone else who has read the research, who has got it wrong. If only we all had your wisdom.

3WildOnes · 21/10/2024 18:09

MrsSunshine2b · 21/10/2024 18:05

I'm sure you're right and it's the inventor of the term gentle parenting, and everyone else who has read the research, who has got it wrong. If only we all had your wisdom.

What?? Sarah Ockwell-Smith is not an academic so I presume she just hasn't read the research on authoritative parenting. I have posted links to peer reviewed research, you are welcome to read it! I don't think anyone who has read the research has got it wrong? I just think that people haven't actually read the research!

Turnips857 · 21/10/2024 22:22

SOS is not an academic and makes a lot of claims/statements of “fact” without any evidence to support them. I do agree with a reasonable amount of what she says but I am very sceptical of people who post strong claims without adding evidence to support them or prefacing them with the phrase “in my opinion”.

BertieBotts · 21/10/2024 23:35

She didn't invent the term gentle parenting. It was well in use on forums by the time her 2016 book was published. Plus there was an earlier book (2005) with the title "Adventures in Gentle Discipline" which was well-known on every Attachment Parenting forum because it was in the La Leche League approved library. I found one earlier than this (mid or late 90s IIRC) using the term, not in the title though, but it doesn't really resemble what most people today would call gentle discipline/parenting, plus I forgot the title of this book, so can't reference it.

I wrote an article about this which was never published, so I really did look into this in some detail - I looked up on google trends, plus the google thing which searches books, MN advanced search and the advanced search of every parenting forum I could find which is still live, as well as the wayback machine and the timeline seems to be that the word "gentle" starts being used in conjunction with either discipline or parenting sporadically throughout the 2000s, then a bit more activity from 2010-2012, 2012 is the start of a slow but steady incline which peaks very suddenly in 2021 which I think is probably when influencers got in on it.

MNers started using it in about 2012, though argued about what it is a lot and mostly agreed it's a silly name, and it was definitely a thing on UK parenting sites long before it became used as a term on more American-centric sites like Reddit (though this might also be that Reddit had very little parenting content until much more recently, and a lot of the other places people discuss/ed parenting are either gone or were behind logins - ie deep web, e.g. LiveJournal, or email newsgroups). Before 2012, there were still threads with the exact same concepts, it just got referred to by either specific book titles e.g. How To Talk, or Taking Children Seriously or Unconditional Parenting, or descriptions like "the thing where you don't use punishments" which is what I definitely called it a few times! Also bear in mind that even today, in some parts of America smacking/spanking is still apparently a very normal and accepted thing - so they tend to have a bit of a different understanding. I have seen some people on more US based sites refer to Supernanny or 123 Magic as gentle parenting, whereas neither are IMO.

SOS started the "gentle" line with the gentle sleep book in 2015, which makes sense because there was a gap in the market for a UK sleep alternative - lots of big popular sleep trainer types had books out, the main alternative at the time was Elizabeth Pantley, and the idea of being "gentle" with sleep made sense. She then used that as a sort of brand (or, wikipedia suggests that her publisher did). Nothing wrong with doing that, and it's clearly made her books very recognisable. But, again, she didn't invent the term and it may have even been accidental - or possibly she was hoping to ride the wave of the significance of the word being used to denote the sort of "follow on" from attachment parenting which it tended to be at that time, which if that was the aim, it was very successful.

BertieBotts · 21/10/2024 23:49

Oh no never mind, I found it again in about five seconds - it was "Gentle Discipline" by Dawn Lighter published 1995. However, contains lots of references to time out and bribery, which are usually absent from gentle parenting.

The other book from the 90s which is relevant is Sears' Discipline Book where they coin the term "firm but gentle" - of course this is a direct follow on from Attachment Parenting. This one was probably a La Leche League one too, they love Sears.

Plus of course How To Talk was published in 1980 though this is getting a bit muddy because they don't suggest it as an entire scheme or style of parenting, it's more of a collection of suggestions and tips.

You can go back further and find lots of v "hippy" parenting stuff in the 60s like Summerhill (actually founded in 1921). It's basically just anti-authoritarian, which is very old.

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