To think gentle parenting is actually permissive

[theedgeoftheforest]

Even though those who favour it are very insistent it isn’t - well, it is, isn’t it?

Its all ‘they have no impulse control’ (they do) ‘you’re expecting too much’ (you’re not) ‘the teachers reward and sanction, complain to the school’ (nonsense.)

I know post after post will insist that gentle parenting does have boundaries and to be fair I see gentle parents talk a lot about boundaries but they don’t seem to have a clue how to implement them and their kids run rings round them.

Gentle parenting is actually authoritative parenting. Permissive parenting is permissive parenting. Someone might call permissive parenting gentle parenting but that doesn’t mean that it is.

Go look up The Adominable Blackman and you will understand what gentle parenting (aka authoritative parenting) actually looks like.

@Flutterbycustard my children have been called model students in their school reports so I genuinely don't think my parenting has made them a nightmare to teach!

But @Flutterbycustard I would argue that ’Bessy, you’re not behaving very nicely and I’m not going to listen to you anymore about this’. is absolutely a gentle parenting compatible phrase. It’s not a pointless, unrelated consequence. It’s not minimising how the child feels. You’re simply holding a boundary of how you’re prepared to be spoken too. I fall into the gentle parenting camp (although I wouldn’t label it as such), and I have absolutely told my 7 year old that I am not comfortable being spoken to in that way, and until he can speak to me in a way that’s more appropriate I won’t discuss it any further.

Because we’re a one minded monolith?

My 3 & 4.5 year old forward face. We use screen time, and childcare (to your earlier post), but I would describe myself as a gentle parent. I try very hard to break generational patterns of abuse & give my kids more grace and kindness than I was shown.

We have boundaries. I don’t get it right a lot of the time. I shout sometimes, I lose my cool more than I’d like, but I also try to set age appropriate expectations. My kids are friendly and polite and emotionally astute - and yes sometimes they’re little shits!

What you’re describing IS permissive parenting, even if the parents don’t recognise it.

I don't think that is quite true. 'Gentle parenting' tends not to use punishments where as punishments (smacking, time out)are used in authoritative parenting. I think of gentle parenting as sitting at the top of the centre line on the parenting axis.

I’m not saying it has. I’m sure your children are lovely and there are a lot of factors to take into consideration.

I’m just debating whether some gentle parented teens in particular, may get to a point where they demand such consideration from the other adults in their life?

"Empathising" with a whining child over a biscuit, because that's the way they move on quickest, would look a lot like permissive parenting to an onlooker I think. I'm trying to imagine what words would even be used.

Well perhaps I am largely a gentle parent and didn’t realise it.

I definitely take some issue with some of the elements however.

Also authoritative parenting (gentle parenting) doesn’t say no childcare? Where have you got that from? And it doesn’t say don’t get annoyed, it says regulate yourself before responding. And it doesn’t say childminders over nursery at all. Where have you got this stuff from?! You have clearly been reading the wrong Facebook posts.

No, you’re thinking of authoritarian parenting.

Permissive
Authoritative (aka gentle)
Authoritarian
Neglectful

It would probably go along the lines if ' I know you're really disappointed that you wanted a Biscuit, I wish I could eat lots of biscuits too but it would make my tummy hurt'. For two of my children they would probably accept that and move on. As I said up thread, it wouldn't work on the other so I would just tell him no and if he carried on whining I might ask him to stop or just remove myself from the situation so he didn't have an audience, or I might just ignore.

No I'm not. I've read all of Diana Baumrind's papers on the parenting axis and authoritative parenting often involved punishments.

What set it apart from authoritarian parenting were the high levels of warmth.

Authoritative and Authoritarian are not the same thing. The latter is punishments, the former is gentle. Also, appropriate, natural consequence discipline and punishments are not the same thing.

I have no idea who you’re talking about, but these are the four accepted types of parenting. Here’s a scientific paper for you outlining each type and as you’ll see, authoritative is much like gentle:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK568743/#:~:text=However%2C%20this%20discussion%20focuses%20on,vary%20depending%20on%20the%20situation.

Diana Baumrind was the researcher who came up with the parenting axis and whose research showed that authoritative parenting had the best outcomes. You are welcome to Google and read her papers.

Her theory was from 1966. What I have laid out to you is the current accepted theory of the four different types of parenting styles. I studied this four years ago and have kept up to date (loosely) since.

The thing is, if a child is whining about not having a biscuit, he is being unreasonable. It's not the biscuit itself so much as the entitlement and demand.

Withholding the biscuit, but indulging the behaviour (whining, being entitled, etc) is permissive parenting, imo.

I think sometimes parents think "I was so firm, I didn't give him the biscuit so i didn't reward that behaviour" but actually it's still basically rewarding his behaviour if you're validating/encouraging the whining.

Like Aunt Petunia placating Dudley for not giving him enough birthday presents. It doesn't matter whether or not she buys more presents. Just the placating is permissive already.

And before anyone says, yes yes, not True Gentle Parenting, etc etc

Agreed, and it's also very tedious to be around. When my children have shut up about the biscuits I can't be doing with other children whinging on and on about them 😂 Especially when it's obvious that the whiner is miserable and the children who knew there was no point in whining are off enjoying themselves.

Oh dooooooooioooon’t do that daaaaaarling
Kind hands sweetheart
I know that makes you sad when we can’t do what we want
oh I know you don’t want to put you coat on.
Rewarding tantrums with hugs

So tired of shitty non-parenting parents and their feral kids

It looks a lot like lazy parenting to onlookers.

The references on the link you showed me references Diana Baumrind's research over and over. From your link.

Parents belonging to the first cluster (Fig. 2) scored above average on positive parenting, rules and discipline; and scored below average on harsh punishment. A visual inspection of the cluster plot did not reveal notable differences between mothers and fathers. These parents show warmth and involvement in their interaction with their child, but at the same time set clear rules and expectations for children’s behavior. They also discipline the child’s undesirable behavior, but rarely use strict physical punishment when doing so. Because these parents demonstrate elevated support and (adequate) behavioral control levels, we labeled this parenting style as the congruent authoritative parenting style.

Authoritative parenting doesn't exclude using time outs or spanking as long as it is not 'overly harsh'.

But adults whine all the time? We whine about our workload, about having to do the shopping / cook the tea, about public transport delays, about not being able to afford a holiday, about traffic, about arranging school holiday childcare, etc etc.

Not being allowed a biscuit to a child is probably no less irritating than us having to sit in traffic.

Yes I agree with this. Gentle parenting leads to worse behaviour in some toddlers but it pays off when they are older and have always been treated respectfully and told the truth to.
Children learn by example and not by what you tell them.

Not all.adults whine all the time - it's very unattractive when they do! Have you not heard of the stiff upper lip?

I have. Have your ever stood on a train platform when there’s been a delay? Or worked in customer service when you have to tell the customer that they can’t have exactly that they want? Children are hearing all of that too.