Angry with son for abandoning daughter on night out

[maxtheblackcat]

I need some perspective before I say anything as I’m so angry right now I could be very unfair.
I have lived a very sheltered life, I know this and try to be mindful that it can make me naive. My son who is 25 lives in London, his girlfriend works in the fashion and entertainment industry and has some friends who are actors/musicians/models. Not your household names but none the less famous and have some influence. We are down visiting son in London, my daughter who’s 19 came with us. My daughter is on a gap year, she isn’t the most confident and doesn’t really do the whole drinking/club scene. Even if she did our nearest clubs are small so a very different feel.
Some of sons girlfriends friends were planning a night out, they had a reservation at a lovely expensive restaurant and then were on the guest list for a seemingly high end/exclusive club. My daughter ended up invited, she was hesitant but decided to go as she felt it was an opportunity she didn’t want to miss, and I get it if I was 19 if want to hang out with musicians and actors and models too! She was nervous but my son and his girlfriend promised they’d keep an eye on her.
We don’t hear anything most of the night until about half past midnight when my daughter calls me in tears, she says she stepped out as she felt really uncomfortable, that she’d gone to the bathroom and the girl who had got them on the guest list was sniffing coke, older guys were being provocative, she didn’t know where son or his girlfriend were. I told her to call him and get him to either put her in a cab back to the hotel or take her home, she was panicking and not used to London at all and nervous of being in a cab alone late at night.
Typically he didn’t answer, she tried the girlfriend too no answer, we tried them both. We then told her to go back in and find him but the security guard wouldn’t let her unless the girl who she was a guest off (so girlfriends friend) came out and verified who she was and let her in. I’m not sure if this is standard practice but obviously, my DD doesn’t know this girl at all and had no way of contacting this girl and the security guard wasn’t helpful at all. My daughter was panicking and a group of girls walking by noticed and helped her get a cab back to the hotel. Luckily she’s here with us now and while shaken up she’s okay. We have always taught our kids to never be around people doing drugs and had a “fly with the crows, shot with the crows” mantra. My daughter said this is the first time she’d ever actually seen anyone doing lines of cocaine and the men were being so sleazy.
We still haven’t heard from my son which makes me think he hasn’t even noticed that she isn’t there!!

AIBU to be absolutely disgusted with him and beyond angry? He knew that his sister was new to all of this and promised to look out for her! My husband thinks it’s unfair to ask him to babysit his adult sister and she just shouldn’t have gone if she wasn’t going to be able to handle it. He thinks it was naive of me to think models, actors and musicians wouldn’t be doing drugs.

OP, do you plan to have a conversation with your DD too? Regardless of your view of DS’s behavior, you and your DD keep making excuses (she didn’t hear, she didn’t know, she heard stories,…). I would be sad if her only takeaway is that she is not in the mood for nightclub for a while.

I would be embarrassed (also about my parenting) if my DD only called DS and the gf after I told her, that even while being with her on the phone she still needed strangers to get her on a cab as she kept panicking. The “I have seen abuse cases in Uber and cabs” not being a problem anymore only because a group of ladies got her into a cab…Having a conversation with her about consuming information and make it useful not only to find reasons to freak out, at age 19, well, I would do it but I would be embarrassed of myself as a parent. I would also think about the phone conversation, did you help her manage her nervousness or just went also on panic mode on your little DD and went on to tell her what to do? It doesn’t seem she was able to do anything on her own once she was out of the club and called you.

I think the conversation with DS was fair to have, even if just to hear his side of the story. The gf, well, I wouldn’t normalize drugs, and I would roll my eyes at her response on that. But it would be good if you realized this is about your DD failing at managing stressful situations, not about nightlife hobbies!!!

Ideally, DS would have checked his phone a bit sooner (but it's easy to lose track a bit when you're drunk and having a good time). Other than that, though, it does sound as though your DD has been sheltered, is a bit immature and panicked.

Pretty standard experience for a party or a club, as is getting split up from whoever you’re with. It happens. I wouldn’t blame the brother. She’s 19, not a child.

People do drugs. Men can be gross. People get separated on nights out. It can seem scary at first but that is the real world! Exposure to this isn’t necessarily a bad thing. I’d treat it as a lesson and a harsh reminder that she needs to learn some safety skills at her age.

I’ve always been cautious and before heading out would ensure that I had a plan B for getting home. I’d find a reputable taxi company and save their number. I’d know the address of the hotel or house that I’m staying at. I’d share my location. I’d ensure I had money to get home and a fully charged phone. And if separated from friends, I’d never make myself seem vulnerable by going outside alone and looking lost or upset. I’ll be having these conversations with my daughter when she hits a certain age, as my mother did with me.

Rather than getting angry at the son and feeling sorry for the daughter, have a chat with her about how she can look after herself. Sadly in this scary world it is needed!

Actually thinking back I can remember a sort of similar incident when I was 18 visiting a friend who was living with relatives in London (we were both from very rural parts), we went to a club with a much older male friend of hers / her uncles who paid for lots of things for us. I was shocked how expensive things were. He was very tactile towards us both which my friend seemed to accept as the way things are. I remember feeling uncomfortable and wanting the night to be over but she was…I guess allowing him to dictate. My learning was more around having enough money to make independent choices, or not putting oneself in that position. I certainly would have left and got a taxi if I wasn’t a guest if my friends relatives and I felt obligated to go along with being ok with the sleazy older friend touching my leg, hand on waist etc

He didn't abandon his sister, he was in the party, his sister left without telling him.
Also very naïve to go to a party with 'models, actors, musicians' and not expect cocaine and sleazy men.
At 19 she should be able to get a cab without crying. She wasn't alone and she was going back to her parents who were nearby. She sounds very young for her age

OP, I get it. I work with teenagers and they are all very different! At least a quarter of them might have reacted as your DD did and felt very uncomfortable in that situation and probably panicked in a similar way. I grew up in a busy city and they are from small towns and villages, so have had far fewer experiences than I did at that age.

I'm glad your DD is safe. Your son should have looked out for his sister more but I guess he wasn't really aware he needed to. Hopefully your DD will be fine and not feel too bad about what happened.

I'm wondering at what age I should introduce my 15 year old DD2 to watching other peoole snort drugs to make sure she isn't "babied". 🤔

DD1 is 19 and is enjoying some raucous nights out at university just now. She had nights out in town with friends, but only since she turned 18.

My point is it's not the 1990s any more. I knew girls in my year of 14/15 at school who went to raves and took drugs at the weekend, and were sexually active with older boyfriends. No way I or my close friends would have been allowed to do that then, and I'm very glad now that I wasn't. We did start going out and drinking at 16/17 as you could get served underage then easily.

Most places now are very strict and there is not a culture in Gen Z of going out drinking (or taking drugs) and dancing once or twice a week as there was once for underage Gen Xs.

Not saying they don't go to house parties where there is alcohol but a typical 19 year old today will not necessarily be well-versed about nightclubs, open drug taking and sleazy men.

This is embarrassing and ridiculously over dramatic.

what was DS supposed to do - follow her into the loos and stand outside the cubicle?

Oh well as long as you wouldn’t overreact

It doesn't sound like this is the type of scene for her to be but, she was mature enough to leave and know she wasnt safe so thats a good sign.

She did the right thing to ask for help. You can be angry at your son but leave his girlfrined out of it, its nothing to do with her. Ultimately though she has a mildly uncomfortable expeirence, and she will have to learn to manage this on her own without calling her parents.

OP, do you accept your/your husband's part in this? You've not addressed it. That your DD appears to be unprepared for aspects of adult life?

He took his sister to a club snd she left without telling him. Who has fucked up? If you were so worried why didn’t you or your husband get a cab to the club? Yes teach your kids about drug dangers but she has taken your teaching too far and put herself in more danger. Shd sounds extremely naive and really needs to wise up.
We live in a very rural area and my dd has driven to London for concerts and all kinds of things. It sounds as though she’s been so sheltered she hasn’t learned to look after herself.

I'd expect your son to have half an eye on her as it's her first time out in London.

He obviously didn't. It's done now but I would teach her to have an exit route planned if she goes out and go out with friends who will stay with you.

It's a bit off to make him babysit a 19 year old. Has she got any special needs?

Why didn't she go into the smoking area if it was too much for her? Surely she would have thought 'hmm I came in with a group of people, of if I leave I'll not be allowed back in unless I'm
With said people?' No?

I think they both need a word. He should of been looking out for her as he said he would and should of noticed she'd gone well before he did. She shouldn't of left without finding him first. I don't understand people saying she's an adult it's not about age it's about situation and experience she's in an area she doesn't know, she's not use to the club scene and he invited her out and said he would look after her.

Bit of both. Yea I would be annoyed at son but your daughter needs to be confident to leave a club and get a taxi back on her own at 19.

First, I’m glad your DD got herself home safely in the end. Remind her of that, and that nothing actually happened to her despite the moment of panic.

19 year olds vary wildly in their level of independence and ability to problem solve in a moment that feels like a crisis. There’s no one right level for that age, but it can create some mismatch in expectations. The reality is that your DD sounds like she’s on the “younger” end of that spectrum while your DS is living in London socializing with other young adults who are more experienced moving around a city on their own, going to clubs, and generally being independent, and his perspective on what’s normal to expect of a woman your DD’s age is based off of that. It’s not at all surprising that he didn’t expect a 19 year old to run off out of the club on her own after being warned she wouldn’t be able to get back in. And when she did and someone told him she had gotten in a cab to go back to you it’s not surprising he found that perfectly fine, because getting a cab back to mum and dad within London is something that will seem extremely mundane to him.

I’d move on from the need to blame anyone. Everyone get some rest, recoup, and then acknowledge there are some life skills that you can offer to work on with your DD. Having a backup plan for transportation (knowing how to call a cab/uber, having the destination & funds) and generally taking a more active role navigating around the city, planning travel, and dealing with those inevitable snags in plans will do her in good stead. None of it needs to be framed as her being behind, they’re just things young adults learn through practice and experience.

You need to work on changing this opinion. Yes things can happen but it’s very rare and normally would be a safe way for her to get home. Work on teaching her the reputable firms, make sure she has Uber and knows how to use, teach her how to recognise that she is getting a licenced cab versus in to a strangers car.
if she can’t use a taxi she is really holding herself back.

100% agree with this!

@maxtheblackcat I really sympathise. I would be angry too but it’s easy to understand getting lost in a nightclub. However, whether it’s siblings or friends on a night out you look after each other. Doesn’t really matter what their age is or if they are sheltered/unsheltered. Thankfully those random girls helped get your daughter in a taxi.

I do think it was lack of planning and miscommunication led your daughter to panic. Hopefully now she will have plan B and know what’s to do if something similar happens again.

Sounds like they have quite different personalities, where your son might be more relaxed and go with the flow and shes prone to worry a bit more. And the more go with the flow types don't always see things the same way as the ones who worry, so he wouldn't have thought it was a big deal for her to go to the bathroom with the friend and didn't expect her to panic and leave on her own. The friends not knowing her well wouldn't have expected her to react the way she did either. Just sounds like it was a bit too much for her, as it would be for many of us. Glad she made it back safe.

Clubs are busy places. If you walk through them you are going to be touched and touch others. That's the way they are. Sounds like the people were dancing and having fun.

But she can’t have grown up that far from London if she managed to get a cab from the club and was “back with you” by two.

At the end of the day your DD was the one
who left and went outside without telling anyone. Being separated is on her.

What are her gap year plans?

this is a great chance for her to work on gaining more independence.

if she is going traveling then it’s good for her to get used to travelling around England on her own a bit first in the lead up to it.

Yes, if your DD is that naive she needs to work on it, but he’s her brother and at that sort of club your daughter was incredibly vulnerable (even if she wasn’t naive). 19 year olds stand out in situations with much older people.

Your son was irresponsible but, also, so were you for thinking a guy on a night out with his girlfriend would give two shits about his sister.

You’re all equally to blame.