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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Angry with son for abandoning daughter on night out

1000 replies

maxtheblackcat · 19/10/2024 02:15

I need some perspective before I say anything as I’m so angry right now I could be very unfair.
I have lived a very sheltered life, I know this and try to be mindful that it can make me naive. My son who is 25 lives in London, his girlfriend works in the fashion and entertainment industry and has some friends who are actors/musicians/models. Not your household names but none the less famous and have some influence. We are down visiting son in London, my daughter who’s 19 came with us. My daughter is on a gap year, she isn’t the most confident and doesn’t really do the whole drinking/club scene. Even if she did our nearest clubs are small so a very different feel.
Some of sons girlfriends friends were planning a night out, they had a reservation at a lovely expensive restaurant and then were on the guest list for a seemingly high end/exclusive club. My daughter ended up invited, she was hesitant but decided to go as she felt it was an opportunity she didn’t want to miss, and I get it if I was 19 if want to hang out with musicians and actors and models too! She was nervous but my son and his girlfriend promised they’d keep an eye on her.
We don’t hear anything most of the night until about half past midnight when my daughter calls me in tears, she says she stepped out as she felt really uncomfortable, that she’d gone to the bathroom and the girl who had got them on the guest list was sniffing coke, older guys were being provocative, she didn’t know where son or his girlfriend were. I told her to call him and get him to either put her in a cab back to the hotel or take her home, she was panicking and not used to London at all and nervous of being in a cab alone late at night.
Typically he didn’t answer, she tried the girlfriend too no answer, we tried them both. We then told her to go back in and find him but the security guard wouldn’t let her unless the girl who she was a guest off (so girlfriends friend) came out and verified who she was and let her in. I’m not sure if this is standard practice but obviously, my DD doesn’t know this girl at all and had no way of contacting this girl and the security guard wasn’t helpful at all. My daughter was panicking and a group of girls walking by noticed and helped her get a cab back to the hotel. Luckily she’s here with us now and while shaken up she’s okay. We have always taught our kids to never be around people doing drugs and had a “fly with the crows, shot with the crows” mantra. My daughter said this is the first time she’d ever actually seen anyone doing lines of cocaine and the men were being so sleazy.
We still haven’t heard from my son which makes me think he hasn’t even noticed that she isn’t there!!

AIBU to be absolutely disgusted with him and beyond angry? He knew that his sister was new to all of this and promised to look out for her! My husband thinks it’s unfair to ask him to babysit his adult sister and she just shouldn’t have gone if she wasn’t going to be able to handle it. He thinks it was naive of me to think models, actors and musicians wouldn’t be doing drugs.

OP posts:
flyingefffs · 19/10/2024 14:19

Pumpkinpie1 · 19/10/2024 13:57

I think your sons attitude is absolutely disgusting.
They knew the trusted friend was a “druggie” and thought is was ok to send her to the bathroom with her whilst she did her normal coke ritual ….
They knew his sister wasn’t used to the party scene that she wasn’t used to London, invited her to come with them and failed in the basics of making sure she was ok
If I was with someone who didn’t know the ropes I’d keep an eye on them . If just a basic courtesy

The girlfriend …… sounds awful too were they both enjoying a few lines and that’s why they were distracted?
Id be very concerned if this was my son .

I’d be concerned about people like you having a son.

DodoTired · 19/10/2024 14:20

Funny how this thread has a bit of misogynistic vibe to it.

a man gets a total pass for being a bit shit and thoughtless and prioritising his own fun (how unusual of him), and a young woman gets blamed basically for relying on his word. If Something had happened to her, that would have been unacceptable victim blaming.

Also, a group of young women who saw her outside get praised for helping her out and all this sisterhood. Basically, they did for her more than her own brother did. so again there’s one expectation for women (either they sort the problems out themselves or through help of other women ) and a bit of low bar for men.

I bet if it was an older sister, but not the older brother, the responses would have been very different, because – sisterhood!

TwentyFiveAndCounting · 19/10/2024 14:20

Sorry but this is all ridiculous. The police should be involved as the drugs are illegal, and your son is an idiot. Your daughter will know better than to hang out with them again I hope.

exprecis · 19/10/2024 14:20

Greengagesnfennel · 19/10/2024 14:12

I hadn’t but have now.

I’d still be mad at DS tbh. He’s 25 and knew this was a party with drug takers and men groping women (does he do this?). Only he knew how completely innapropriate a place this was to take his 19yo sister. And he left a stranger to her to look after her, so not really the same as him and his girlfriend doing it.

He couldn't go with her to the toilet. And she didn't want to go with the girlfriend who offered.

She knew where they were and decided to neither stay with her temporary babysitter nor go back to her other babysitters

ToWhitToWhoo · 19/10/2024 14:22

If he promised to look after her and then let her down, then he was very U, and either didn't take his promise seriously, or perhaps had himself taken a little something that impaired his judgement.

If she just assumed that he'd look after her, without checking, then she was also U- but it does sound as though he'd promised. In which case I'd probably be very angry; but would check with him first to be sure there hadn't been a misunderstanding.

I'm not sure that the fact that she's an adult gets him off the hook. As many news items and historic revelations demonstrate, adults, especially women, can be vulnerable in such situations, and I would always recommend that someone attending such a party should keep contact with a friend who can assist in an emergency. However, your daughter should also learn for the future to keep the number of a reliable taxi company that she can call (safer than hailing a cab on the street).

Strawberry4Supermoon · 19/10/2024 14:24

BustingBaoBun · 19/10/2024 14:06

I grew up in the equivalent of 'This Country' (brilliant comedy BBC1) and I had far more sense at a younger age, with no life lessons from parents.

I love 'This Country' too and I also grew up in the country. Good for you for being that strange anomaly - a person with sense - particularly at a young age and without life lessons. I often struggle to find people with sense. One can only hope.

independencefreedom · 19/10/2024 14:24

exprecis · 19/10/2024 14:20

He couldn't go with her to the toilet. And she didn't want to go with the girlfriend who offered.

She knew where they were and decided to neither stay with her temporary babysitter nor go back to her other babysitters

'Babysitter' is so bitchy

Greengagesnfennel · 19/10/2024 14:25

I can’t get over all you posters who are happy to normalise men groping women in a Club. Suggesting this is acceptable behaviour that she should not be shocked by or insist on getting away from.

i would be letting DS know that I am disgusted that he is happy to associate with sleeze like this. This is 2020 and we should be teaching our young women and men, to expect better.

NPET · 19/10/2024 14:27

O.K. maybe you were naive BUT THAT DOES NOT excuse your son's behaviour. He must know how his sister was, how she would react, how she wasn't used to the London club scene.
Poor girl.
In your shoes I would be livid and would be thinking about some SERIOUS "disciplining" (sts) of your son, his gf, AND your husband!

BustingBaoBun · 19/10/2024 14:28

a man gets a total pass for being a bit shit and thoughtless and prioritising his own fun (how unusual of him), and a young woman gets blamed basically for relying on his word

The only trouble with that statement is..... very many of us (the majority) don't think he was a bit shit and thoughtless.

Chachanging · 19/10/2024 14:29

DoreenonTill8 · 19/10/2024 02:35

She’s never been to a club, only drinking she’s done has been at pubs in our town, where she can walk home, call us to come and get her
Really? At 19?
Is she your blue eyed innocent baby and he's her big bad brother?
Have you often had to rush in to protect/defend her from him?

What an odd assumption. Everyone’s upbringing is different. And not all kids even want to go clubbing. That’s ok.

My children are at university but grew up in London. They are pretty streetwise and are used to clubbing. But if my 18y daughter went to visit her 21y brother at university in a different city, I would expect him to make sure she was safe and ok after a late night out. Though he would do that anyway as he is decent and responsible.

exprecis · 19/10/2024 14:29

independencefreedom · 19/10/2024 14:24

'Babysitter' is so bitchy

But TBH the level of supervision the OP and some others seem to have expected here is babysitting.

It goes way beyond looking out for another adult.

It seems to include never letting her out of sight, not even letting her go to the toilet alone when she said she didn't want to go with one of them.

And being answerable to her mum not her.

Greengagesnfennel · 19/10/2024 14:29

BustingBaoBun · 19/10/2024 14:28

a man gets a total pass for being a bit shit and thoughtless and prioritising his own fun (how unusual of him), and a young woman gets blamed basically for relying on his word

The only trouble with that statement is..... very many of us (the majority) don't think he was a bit shit and thoughtless.

Of course he was. He’s been to these parties before. He knew where he was taking her.

defending sleazy male gropers (or even those who stand by and do nothing) is not a good look.

Greengagesnfennel · 19/10/2024 14:31

exprecis · 19/10/2024 14:29

But TBH the level of supervision the OP and some others seem to have expected here is babysitting.

It goes way beyond looking out for another adult.

It seems to include never letting her out of sight, not even letting her go to the toilet alone when she said she didn't want to go with one of them.

And being answerable to her mum not her.

Edited

It wasn’t an ordinary party though was it. Are you regularly groped when you go out?

BustingBaoBun · 19/10/2024 14:32

Strawberry4Supermoon · 19/10/2024 14:24

I love 'This Country' too and I also grew up in the country. Good for you for being that strange anomaly - a person with sense - particularly at a young age and without life lessons. I often struggle to find people with sense. One can only hope.

Don't get me started on 'This Country' (love love love it!) .. I even live somewhere like that now! In fact it's even more like it here than where I was brought up!

It's interesting because my (adult) DCs are really quite sensible (whilst loving gigs, clubs, festivals etc) and I wonder if being brought up so rurally means you have to rely more on yourself... or something....

YellowphantGrey · 19/10/2024 14:33

independencefreedom · 19/10/2024 14:14

Yes I do, two of whom are older than 18. I also have 10 nephews and nieces in their 20s and worked with young adults for many years. Some 19 year olds are a lot more worldly than others and can handle difficult situations better. I assume the OP knows her daughter pretty well, and despite the MN expectation that every 18-19 year old is a completely formed adult, that just isn't the case for many of that age group. Even scientifically, the frontal lobe isn't fully mature until 25.

So did you teach your children when they were little, what to do if they got separated from the family on a day out?

And did you teach them what to do on nights or days out with friends? Such as stay together, don't leave a night out without telling the group?

And did you tell them how to buy a train ticket or to call a cab or get a bus ticket?

And did you remind them of this before they went out?

Or did you do none of the above and instead, make it the responsibility of the eldest sibling?

Chachanging · 19/10/2024 14:34

coxesorangepippin · 19/10/2024 02:47

This is getting a bit dramatic

19 year old woman in a bar who's surprised a guy puts his hands on her waist??

Is it her first time out??

that’s a horrible thing to happen to any woman of any age. Nobody should expect that to happen. Raise your standards.

BustingBaoBun · 19/10/2024 14:35

Greengagesnfennel · 19/10/2024 14:29

Of course he was. He’s been to these parties before. He knew where he was taking her.

defending sleazy male gropers (or even those who stand by and do nothing) is not a good look.

A man touched her waist. I'm not defending sleazy male gropers, it's a life lesson to be able to push through a jam packed club full of people.

Not a good look to assume that everyone in that club was a sleazy male groper and that is all the brother's fault.

Dweetfidilove · 19/10/2024 14:36

Your son's behaviour was dickish - YANBU.

Knowing that there's heavy drug taking and sleazy men around wojld be even more reason to look out for his sister, especially on her first big night out. He's thoughtless enough to not even have called her and check why she left without him. Anything could have happened. How disappointing 😞.

Righteouspuppy · 19/10/2024 14:37

The groping was explained as a couple of men touching her waist as she squeezed by. Not amazing behaviour but hardly something to run away hysterically crying from. Unfortunately there are lots of men like this in the world and she needs to learn how to deal with that. She shouldn’t in an ideal world, but she does.

What I don’t understand is why her brother is her protector from this? Does she need a chaperone to and from the toilet?

Applemayjune · 19/10/2024 14:39

Chachanging · 19/10/2024 14:34

that’s a horrible thing to happen to any woman of any age. Nobody should expect that to happen. Raise your standards.

What the fuck.

If you're in a nightclub with hundreds of people pressed in together, there's loud music and people are dancing in the dark,

How would it ever happen that a man would never put his hand on a womans waist.

Some people are totally unrealistic. Her waist is not a sexual area.

It's her waist.

Pookerrod · 19/10/2024 14:40

Strawberry4Supermoon · 19/10/2024 14:03

This. There's a world of difference between London (especially if you have no experience of it) versus middle-of-nowhere narrow lanes lined with hedges village; 1 post office (closed down), few cows about, the odd person, possibly a corner shop.

I’d be much more worried about my 19 year old daughter losing her friends on a night out in the countryside or a small town than in central London.

In central London you have 24/7 tube network, 24/7 buses, black cabs, Ubers, CCTV everywhere, police around every corner, full 5G phone signal, and people everywhere who will help you if you are lost. There are countless hotels, shops, food establishments, bars etc that you can go in if you need help at any time of the day or night.

Miyagi99 · 19/10/2024 14:40

DodoTired · 19/10/2024 11:31

Well then he abandoned her. She was counting on him to be one place, and he left it, without communicating it to her – he could’ve sent her text message.

Who stays in the same place in a club? It’s not like a pub where you have a seat!

YellowphantGrey · 19/10/2024 14:42

DodoTired · 19/10/2024 14:20

Funny how this thread has a bit of misogynistic vibe to it.

a man gets a total pass for being a bit shit and thoughtless and prioritising his own fun (how unusual of him), and a young woman gets blamed basically for relying on his word. If Something had happened to her, that would have been unacceptable victim blaming.

Also, a group of young women who saw her outside get praised for helping her out and all this sisterhood. Basically, they did for her more than her own brother did. so again there’s one expectation for women (either they sort the problems out themselves or through help of other women ) and a bit of low bar for men.

I bet if it was an older sister, but not the older brother, the responses would have been very different, because – sisterhood!

But how responsible can the older brother be if the sister refused to go where she knew the girlfriend would be?

How responsible can he be if she ran out of the club in tears without letting anyone know? She knew the location of two people that night, ran away crying from one location and refused to go to the other

If something had happened to her, why would the brother be to blame when she has never been shown how to use a taxi or told how taxis work? Why wouldn't the parents be to blame?

Ultimately if she had been raped or killed, the only person responsible for that would be the man that raped her. However these risks are there so why hasn't she been taught or shown by her parents on how to minimise risk?

It's your job as a parent to equip your child with how to stay safe and repeat those rules each time they go out, not to send them out unprepared and be furious that someone else didn't do their job properly

Applemayjune · 19/10/2024 14:43

Miyagi99 · 19/10/2024 14:40

Who stays in the same place in a club? It’s not like a pub where you have a seat!

The sons girlfriend asked the daughter to go to to the smoking area with her, and she wouldn't go

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