Angry with son for abandoning daughter on night out

[maxtheblackcat]

I need some perspective before I say anything as I’m so angry right now I could be very unfair.
I have lived a very sheltered life, I know this and try to be mindful that it can make me naive. My son who is 25 lives in London, his girlfriend works in the fashion and entertainment industry and has some friends who are actors/musicians/models. Not your household names but none the less famous and have some influence. We are down visiting son in London, my daughter who’s 19 came with us. My daughter is on a gap year, she isn’t the most confident and doesn’t really do the whole drinking/club scene. Even if she did our nearest clubs are small so a very different feel.
Some of sons girlfriends friends were planning a night out, they had a reservation at a lovely expensive restaurant and then were on the guest list for a seemingly high end/exclusive club. My daughter ended up invited, she was hesitant but decided to go as she felt it was an opportunity she didn’t want to miss, and I get it if I was 19 if want to hang out with musicians and actors and models too! She was nervous but my son and his girlfriend promised they’d keep an eye on her.
We don’t hear anything most of the night until about half past midnight when my daughter calls me in tears, she says she stepped out as she felt really uncomfortable, that she’d gone to the bathroom and the girl who had got them on the guest list was sniffing coke, older guys were being provocative, she didn’t know where son or his girlfriend were. I told her to call him and get him to either put her in a cab back to the hotel or take her home, she was panicking and not used to London at all and nervous of being in a cab alone late at night.
Typically he didn’t answer, she tried the girlfriend too no answer, we tried them both. We then told her to go back in and find him but the security guard wouldn’t let her unless the girl who she was a guest off (so girlfriends friend) came out and verified who she was and let her in. I’m not sure if this is standard practice but obviously, my DD doesn’t know this girl at all and had no way of contacting this girl and the security guard wasn’t helpful at all. My daughter was panicking and a group of girls walking by noticed and helped her get a cab back to the hotel. Luckily she’s here with us now and while shaken up she’s okay. We have always taught our kids to never be around people doing drugs and had a “fly with the crows, shot with the crows” mantra. My daughter said this is the first time she’d ever actually seen anyone doing lines of cocaine and the men were being so sleazy.
We still haven’t heard from my son which makes me think he hasn’t even noticed that she isn’t there!!

AIBU to be absolutely disgusted with him and beyond angry? He knew that his sister was new to all of this and promised to look out for her! My husband thinks it’s unfair to ask him to babysit his adult sister and she just shouldn’t have gone if she wasn’t going to be able to handle it. He thinks it was naive of me to think models, actors and musicians wouldn’t be doing drugs.

Not every 19 year old has had the opportunity to go clubbing regularly or be as streetwise as you.

It depends on where they grew up, who there friends are and whether it is something they even want to do.

Just being dismissive of someone else's experiences because you are oh so cool isn't very nice.

For the record DD didn't go to many clubs before 19 because we live rurally and she and her friends aren't really into clubbing.

As for taxis, they are as rare as hen's teeth round here.

DD went to a few clubs as a student, but didn't really enjoy it. It just isn't her "thing".

He didn’t let her go home alone. She ran off outside by herself while he thought she was in the loo and then left without him.

It is not reasonable to expect him to treat a young adult as a flight risk.

Ok, let’s not make things up. They went to the bathroom, pretty common when going out to go with other ladies to the ladies’ room or to freshen up. I don’t see the big deal there.

What does 'keeping an eye on' mean though?

To my mind, it means not leaving her out, being aware of cues she's not enjoying herself/uncomfortable; not forgetting she's there and wandering off.

She chose to go to the loo with someone else.

And then she left the club. At that point, she was the one who left the group. She was the one who abandoned him and his girlfriend and she was the one who broke the agreement for the evening that they would stick together.

Touching her waist...

Just to give some real perspective it's a club packed with people and as I go to festivals and clubs i can speak to what its really like. If you need ro move through a crowd it's inevitable a bit of touching happens. Whether you end up brushing past people or even the occasional hand on shoulder or wasit to signal to someone you are trying to get past them. Sometimes you get ppl who are happy drunk or high on drugs who get to dance with you, I have had women grab my hand and dance with me, a guy try to put a cap on my head cos he thought it was funny. It was harmless. Nothing to be scared of and definitely nothing to hype up as though placing a hand on someone is somehow groping.

Not to say there aren't sleazy men who will grope but in my experience it's quite rare.

OP - Your children are adults and you have no business being in the middle of this misunderstanding/argument between them. Let them talk to each other and sort it out.

Your responsibility as a parent is making sure your daughter can navigate life on her own, at least the basics like calling a cab.

I know you said you've never been to a club either, so I get that you were not equipped to prepare your daughter but these few points are absolutely essential knowledge that she needs to know before going out to any bar again, let alone an exclusive party in London with seasoned party animals:

• Always stay with your friends. Never be alone.
• Don't leave your drink unattended.
• If you need to step out, talk to the bodyguards first ("I'm going out for a minute to phone, but I'll come back in, OK?")
• Have a small cross-body bag. In it should be an ID, phone, and some money, on you at all times.

By the way, your son and his girlfriend almost certainly also do drugs on a night out, as people who do don't go out with those who don't and vice versa. These are two very different and incompatible ways of having fun, and they would not enjoy each other's company if some are high on cocaine which means they are alert and speeding while others are getting drunk and sluggish as the night goes on. I would assume this is why your daughter couldn't find them.

Resist the temptation to lecture your son about drugs and nights out, as is hilariously advised by some on this thread. You have zero experience in either and the chances that he will listen to you on any of it is so low that it might as well be zero for all intents and purposes.

I'm surprised her brother is not pointing out how she left the club without telling him imagine the panic if someone hadn't told him she had.

I do think your DD sounds a bit helpless.

I get that she hasn't gone out before or taken a taxi before but it's the total lack of common sense or problem solving

The first time I took a taxi, I was stranded on a night out because the person driving me home had their car breakdown. He was waiting for the AA but I needed to be home faster than that. So I got out of the car, walked to a cab rank and took a taxi home. I think I was 17.

I didn't panic and call my mummy.

Perhaps if people thought it was entirely reasonable to look after adult women less would end up dead.

This.

She’s 19 and an adult, if she was at uni you wouldn’t expect anyone else to look after her. She shouldn’t have gone out if she was that nervous; you or your husband could have gone and collected her from the club if she didn’t want to get a cab on her own.

Your DD is at fault, your kids are both adults. Step back and stop helicoptering.

almost certainly also do drugs on a night out, as people who do don't go out with those who don't and vice versa. These are two very different and incompatible ways of having fun, and they would not enjoy each other's company if some are high on cocaine which means they are alert and speeding while others are getting drunk and sluggish as the night goes on.

This could be true but also not true

I go to clubs and events with friends and I don't drink or do drugs, some do drugs, some drink and it makes no difference we still all have fun together and enjoy each other's company.

It sounds like they didn’t do a great job of watching out, but also your daughter needed a babysitter - not just someone keeping an eye out. You can be annoyed at them, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable of them to assume at 19 she was somewhat more capable.

Based on the fact that she left the club alone and had no clue what to do, I would say you should have either done more in advance so she’d know how to get a taxi or tell her that she should go out with her own friends somewhere more local first.

The world can be a scary place. You need to find a way to instil some resilience in your daughter. Otherwise adulthood is going to be quite angst ridden.

As you have reiterated several times, you were a very independent young person. You were also wise and knowledgeable beyond your years, in that you learned how most brothers behave, and that grabbing random women in nightclubs is just normal guy behavior.

In these circumstances I think it is a case of it's not his fault, she ran out of the club and couldn't get back in because she hadn't had her hand stamped or whatever the process is these days. The fact he didn't answer his phone isn't surprising as signal can be bad inside buildings like clubs due to soundproofing not to mention loud music means he couldn't hear it. If she needed accompanying to the toilet she was too immature for the club. She freaked out basically, that's ok but I don't blame him

They said they sent her to bathroom with the friend as they trust her, yes she uses cocaine occasionally but she’s a good person. My son went to get drinks for everyone and the girlfriend was going to the smoking area and had offered to take my daughter to the bathroom after but she said she didn’t want to go the smoking area.

This just makes me cringe for your DD. Imagine going out as an adult and people discussing who who go with you to the toilet because you need to be babysat

God, some of the responses on here are downright nasty

I used to go clubbing a lot in my early 20s (late 1970s/early 1980s). I don't remember clubs being full of groping men the way posters describe them now. Are men more sleazy these days?

I just went to dance not drink.

Agreed. If my son's girlfriend spoke to me like that, it'd be the first and last time she ever did. Bloody upstart.

@maxtheblackcat at the age of 19 I started Uni, Sept born. I’d never been to a club, not even a pub as I came from a strict family, that were religious.

It was all a bit of an eye opener for me but I wasn’t scared in these situations, generally had my wits about me. E.g. if we’d go out and see the local premier league football team we’d know to avoid the lads, well unless one of us was up for a one night stand! It was clear in certain clubs on certain nights there would be drug taking, we knew to take care of our drinks. We generally didn’t take drinks off someone we didn’t know. We often would lose people we didn’t know but always found them again.

The waist touching is a funny one, as a woman I might have to put my hand on someone’s back to squeeze past, or say excuse me to them. But often these places were packed like sardines!

Honestly I was always looked after even by strangers, even men who were strangers maybe I was lucky!

Mine hasn't either for different reasons but she knows how to (and has) booked taxis for herself.

She also knows not to leave the people she is with.

This isn't about the daughter's previous opportunities to go clubbing or her level of experience, it's that she hadn't been taught how to behave appropriately in an uncomfortable situation or in the event of getting separated.

Even as young children, when you keep a tight bold of them at all times, we always had a "where to go/where to meet/who to tell policy" in place in case we were inadvertently separated. Because it happens. And the number one rule is that you don’t leave the place you're at together.

Bloody hell, I can still remember when my 6 year old son was separated from me in a large shop. Within seconds there was an announcement over the tannoy because he'd gone straight to an employee and told them he couldn't find me.

That not because I'd introduced him to getting lost in large shops or because he had any experience eof it but because I made sure he knew what to do - and what not to do (ie leave).

How do you stop someone going home alone if they don’t tell you they are leaving and leaving after going to the toilet?

sigh - I don’t think there is one specific person to blame here, this sounds a bit like what happens when a bug night out goes wrong. It was almost inevitable given how sheltered she is and how unprepared. The never having been in a club thing feels strange, I grew up somewhere very rural and we were out on nights out pre-18 (ok so that wouldn’t fly now). That said, I still found my first London experience quite overwhelming.

Men grabbing at women in clubs does happen, and she should have known to expect it and also to brush it off; it’s rare in my experience for brushing someone away in a club to be a huge issue. It would have been extremely stressful to her though if she wasn’t expecting it.

I get the toilet drugs issue - I too was uncomfortable with the blatant drug use in toilets in a particular London club, even though 20 years ago, it was something I hadn’t seen before. I think in the whole ‘drugs are bad m’kay’ speech there needs to be a little bit about what to do if you’re with someone who unexpectedly starts doing party drugs - this isn’t a reason to run off. In fact, she should not have deliberately separated herself in an unfamiliar environment like that. I suspect your son may have sent her with friends so she didn’t report back what he was up to. It’s rare, in my experience, for someone to continually be around so much casual drug use and not be partaking at times. The friend being so open speaks to that too.

Lastly, she should have had a plan about how to get back to you if needed, one that didn’t rely on others doing that for her. Also, your messages start fairly early, if she really was in a mess, why couldn’t you/DH cabbed to her?

This isn't about the daughter's previous opportunities to go clubbing or her level of experience, it's that she hadn't been taught how to behave appropriately in an uncomfortable situation or in the event of getting separated

This

Mother and Father at fault for not teaching DD

Mother and Father trying to blame DS for their failings as parents