Angry with son for abandoning daughter on night out

[maxtheblackcat]

I need some perspective before I say anything as I’m so angry right now I could be very unfair.
I have lived a very sheltered life, I know this and try to be mindful that it can make me naive. My son who is 25 lives in London, his girlfriend works in the fashion and entertainment industry and has some friends who are actors/musicians/models. Not your household names but none the less famous and have some influence. We are down visiting son in London, my daughter who’s 19 came with us. My daughter is on a gap year, she isn’t the most confident and doesn’t really do the whole drinking/club scene. Even if she did our nearest clubs are small so a very different feel.
Some of sons girlfriends friends were planning a night out, they had a reservation at a lovely expensive restaurant and then were on the guest list for a seemingly high end/exclusive club. My daughter ended up invited, she was hesitant but decided to go as she felt it was an opportunity she didn’t want to miss, and I get it if I was 19 if want to hang out with musicians and actors and models too! She was nervous but my son and his girlfriend promised they’d keep an eye on her.
We don’t hear anything most of the night until about half past midnight when my daughter calls me in tears, she says she stepped out as she felt really uncomfortable, that she’d gone to the bathroom and the girl who had got them on the guest list was sniffing coke, older guys were being provocative, she didn’t know where son or his girlfriend were. I told her to call him and get him to either put her in a cab back to the hotel or take her home, she was panicking and not used to London at all and nervous of being in a cab alone late at night.
Typically he didn’t answer, she tried the girlfriend too no answer, we tried them both. We then told her to go back in and find him but the security guard wouldn’t let her unless the girl who she was a guest off (so girlfriends friend) came out and verified who she was and let her in. I’m not sure if this is standard practice but obviously, my DD doesn’t know this girl at all and had no way of contacting this girl and the security guard wasn’t helpful at all. My daughter was panicking and a group of girls walking by noticed and helped her get a cab back to the hotel. Luckily she’s here with us now and while shaken up she’s okay. We have always taught our kids to never be around people doing drugs and had a “fly with the crows, shot with the crows” mantra. My daughter said this is the first time she’d ever actually seen anyone doing lines of cocaine and the men were being so sleazy.
We still haven’t heard from my son which makes me think he hasn’t even noticed that she isn’t there!!

AIBU to be absolutely disgusted with him and beyond angry? He knew that his sister was new to all of this and promised to look out for her! My husband thinks it’s unfair to ask him to babysit his adult sister and she just shouldn’t have gone if she wasn’t going to be able to handle it. He thinks it was naive of me to think models, actors and musicians wouldn’t be doing drugs.

I’ve always lived by the mantra of taking care of my mates when I go out - you keep each other safe.

I'm wondering at what age I should introduce my 15 year old DD2 to watching other peoole snort drugs to make sure she isn't "babied" 🤔

What a ridiculous comment.

No one is suggesting that the OP should have introduced her daughter to drug culture but, by 19, she should be better equipped to look after herself on a night out.

The issue isn't that she felt uncomfortable; the issue is that she couldn't safely navigate a situation she was uncomfortable with to get herself home safely. She wasn't in danger.

She wasn't at risk. She just felt a bit shocked. All of that is fine but she should at.least have known how to phone a taxi at 19.

Please teach your daughter how to deal with inappropriate male behaviour. It is already at least a decade overdue.

There was a great thread on here recently about a woman who was out with her daughter of a similar age to your daughter. https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5186795-was-she-being-unreasonable This is what you need to be teaching her. This is how she needs to respond to shitty men pawing at her.

If your son agreed to look after his sister, then he also should be reminded about honouring his responsibilities. Your offspring seem to be lacking some important life skills.

True

But if one of them disappears, leaves and no one knows where she is, she has to take some responsibility for that. It's not all on everyone else.

She really can’t be that much of a naive country bumpkin if she was able to get a cab from a central london club home.

I'd be furious because your son and girlfriend encouraged her to go and explicitly said that they would keep an eye on her.

He did! She ran off! And what does 'encourage' mean. It was the sister's choice to go. She wasn't forced. The OP said her daughter felt it was an opportunity she didn't want to miss. No idea why the son should be blamed for that decision

I do think your DS should have looked out for a bit better. I wouldn't be particularly happy about that. But I'm not sure I would assume I needed to babysit a 19yo all night and it's not like he could take her to the loo. It's not like he left without her.
But, she ran off. That should be basic knowledge - don't go off alone. And really, she should know by now how to get a taxi herself. Fair enough if clubbing isn't her thing, but she sounds a bit naive and coddled.

I'm on your son's side. He didn't do anything wrong and as he said if he knew she wasn't ready he wouldn't have asked her to come.
DD just freaked out at a new experience. It's a big world out there.

And thebdaighter has no responsibility at all for her response?

People can't keep an eye on someone who is no longer there.

A 19 year old shouldn't need a chaperone to go to the toilet.

I wouldn't be too mad with your son. It's normal to get separated I clubs and he was probably dancing. You would never hear your phone in a club either. As a male he probably had no concept of just how naive and vulnerable your dd was, he won't ever have experienced the groping that young women are subjected to in clubs and in his mind he was still in the same club so hadn't abandoned her. I stared going to clubs very young in the 90s, the sort of behaviour from men you described was very common then and we just put up with it. Of course, now we quite rightly teach young women they don't need to put up so its no wonder she was so shaken up.

Looking out for each other is not the same as needing to treat someone as a flight risk.

My friends and I stuck together for safety when we went out like most young women do. Frankly that’s why most of us would have been at least slightly annoyed if someone chose to leave the club alone without telling anyone while on a trip to the ladies’ room with another girl the way OP’s DD did.

If someone was too drunk to be trusted to stay with the group we’d take a firmer role and drag them into a cab and home, but that’s not applicable to OP’s daughter.

Exactly @whiteroseredrose
I think at uni young women do seem more aware of safety issues and look out for each other as you say.

Shame on posters who think a 19 year old should manage on her own and toughen up.

I'm also shocked at the casual acceptance of drugs. A patient recently told me about her son who has been left brain damaged after near dying from a drugs overdose. Just 18 year olds messing around in a camping trip apparently. He was airlifted to hospital (I assume at least one of his mates was still with it enough to notice something was wrong and call for help so there is that) and six weeks in ICU now he has the capacity of a five year old and she has to do all care for him. A single Mum with serious health problems of her own, I have no idea what will happen to him in the future when she dies as her life expectancy is not good.

So think on that when casually expecting 19 year old to be cool with the drugs scene.

Oh and wise up on ketamine bladder. Another of my patients is a young man in his early twenties whose bladder is ruined for life with a capacity of 40mls. He is on the waiting list for surgery which will reroute urine via a leak conduit to a bag. That is his life now.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-bristol-68826392

This. Even if she's very inexperienced, at 19 she should be capable of getting out of a venue and getting a cab.

If this was somewhere very rural I could understand how difficult it might be.

How is that difficult! Get in it and tell the driver the name of the hotel 🤦‍♀️

All these posts about big scary dangerous London 😁

What is your DD doing with her gap year OP and why did she take one?

Yes your DS should have paid a bit more attention, equally your DD sounds like she didn't listen about the VIP / bouncer situation and did not stay with the friend.

Most of us by 19 have gone to the local ropey nightclubs and worked out you stay with your friends and look out for them. We don't start at London's trendiest nightclub with strict admission's policies.

Your DD has learnt a valuable lesson, you always need a plan on how to get home if you get separated. Thank god, those lovely girls looked after her and got her in a cab.

But the son and his girlfriend said that they’d look out for her so, in that sense, it was their job - “She was nervous but my son and his girlfriend promised they’d keep an eye on her.” The daughter might not have gone if they hadn’t said that. They failed massively. I am with the OP on this.

Why would you be furious? He didn't abandon her. He was still in the club. It was she who left. If anyone abandoned anyone, it was she who abandoned the people she'd gone with.

I'm sorry but some of these replies are ridiculous.

My son (26) and my daughter (18) went to London for the weekend to a gig in the summer. Yes, of course I reminded him to keep an eye on her - he's older and more experienced and she'd only just turned 18 so no chance to have gained any experience herself. But I didn't expect him to be her chaperone at all times - even to the loo.

But she also understood that she was to stay with him. She has the uber app on her phone, she knew the name of the botel they were staying at. I'm pretty sure she'd also have been uncomfortable faced with the reality of someone snorting coke in the loo but she wouldn't have run away. She'd have gone and found him and, if she couldn't, she'd have either stayed at the gig or booked an uber for the hotel and texted him to say she'd left.

She also knows how to respond to sleazy men. No, it shouldn't he necessary but whilst we know it still is, it's important to equip them with the skills to deal with it.

You can't protect them from the harsher realities of life forever so you need to prepare them and teach them appropriate ways of handling situations.

If the OP'a daughter is 19, she should really already have some understanding of this otherwise all of her learning is going to come from finding herself in uncomfortable positions and relying on the kindness of strangers rather than her own common sense.

Yanbu, I would be so utterly disappointed if my ds did this to his younger sister. They took her out, knowing she is very new to all of this and surely as the older brother he should feel some responsibility to her?
I remember going out to clubs and parties with my siblings and we all looked out for each other because that's what you do. The gf telling you that coke is normal and speaking like that - utterly disgusting. I'm only 40 but clearly remember that you wouldn't speak to your BF's parents like that. I really despair at this generation of pathetic 'adults'.

I feel sorry for your dd that she went through that. There is nothing wrong with her. Honestly I think it's great that drugs, being groped and being around losers is not her normal life. Hopefully she is ok today.

When female friends at uni go on a night out, me and all the ones I've known have a policy of not letting the others go home alone for safety. Brother was the only one she knew so he should have been taking that role.
The part about musicians, actors and drugs yes, that is naieve, but wouldn't have mattered if he was keeping an eye on her.

Wherever you go, you need to be confident you can get yourself home / back to a safe place by yourself. If you cannot do that then you don’t go. This party was out of your daughter’s comfort zone and, in hindsight, she wasn’t ready for it, however being able to get herself out of the situation and back to the hotel at any point of the evening was key.

Your son is in a loud, busy club having a good time. He probably didn't hear his phone and the same for his gf. Maybe the battery died, who knows

I think your daughter's first proper night out being in London was a mistake. Seeing people taking drugs, scared to use a taxi, not knowing anybody else

She's nineteen and sounds like a very young nineteen. Blaming your son for all this isn't fair on him. His sister isn't a baby anymore and if she can't get home on her own she shouldn't have gone. Getting separated on a night out is easily done

Tedious 🙄

And she now knows she can get a cab at night, and she can just walk away from drug taking and nothing terrible happens…

there are so many women who ‘can’t’ put petrol in the car, drive on the motorway, take a cab alone, eat out alone, be in the house alone at night etc- she has been shown that even when something is uncomfortable she can get through it.