Angry with son for abandoning daughter on night out

[maxtheblackcat]

I need some perspective before I say anything as I’m so angry right now I could be very unfair.
I have lived a very sheltered life, I know this and try to be mindful that it can make me naive. My son who is 25 lives in London, his girlfriend works in the fashion and entertainment industry and has some friends who are actors/musicians/models. Not your household names but none the less famous and have some influence. We are down visiting son in London, my daughter who’s 19 came with us. My daughter is on a gap year, she isn’t the most confident and doesn’t really do the whole drinking/club scene. Even if she did our nearest clubs are small so a very different feel.
Some of sons girlfriends friends were planning a night out, they had a reservation at a lovely expensive restaurant and then were on the guest list for a seemingly high end/exclusive club. My daughter ended up invited, she was hesitant but decided to go as she felt it was an opportunity she didn’t want to miss, and I get it if I was 19 if want to hang out with musicians and actors and models too! She was nervous but my son and his girlfriend promised they’d keep an eye on her.
We don’t hear anything most of the night until about half past midnight when my daughter calls me in tears, she says she stepped out as she felt really uncomfortable, that she’d gone to the bathroom and the girl who had got them on the guest list was sniffing coke, older guys were being provocative, she didn’t know where son or his girlfriend were. I told her to call him and get him to either put her in a cab back to the hotel or take her home, she was panicking and not used to London at all and nervous of being in a cab alone late at night.
Typically he didn’t answer, she tried the girlfriend too no answer, we tried them both. We then told her to go back in and find him but the security guard wouldn’t let her unless the girl who she was a guest off (so girlfriends friend) came out and verified who she was and let her in. I’m not sure if this is standard practice but obviously, my DD doesn’t know this girl at all and had no way of contacting this girl and the security guard wasn’t helpful at all. My daughter was panicking and a group of girls walking by noticed and helped her get a cab back to the hotel. Luckily she’s here with us now and while shaken up she’s okay. We have always taught our kids to never be around people doing drugs and had a “fly with the crows, shot with the crows” mantra. My daughter said this is the first time she’d ever actually seen anyone doing lines of cocaine and the men were being so sleazy.
We still haven’t heard from my son which makes me think he hasn’t even noticed that she isn’t there!!

AIBU to be absolutely disgusted with him and beyond angry? He knew that his sister was new to all of this and promised to look out for her! My husband thinks it’s unfair to ask him to babysit his adult sister and she just shouldn’t have gone if she wasn’t going to be able to handle it. He thinks it was naive of me to think models, actors and musicians wouldn’t be doing drugs.

You can't rely on drunk people to look at their phones.

It's unfortunate and your DS could've thought after half an hour, where is my sister? But time warps when you're drunk.

Your DD could do with more resilience. She also sounds terrified of everything.

I also suspect that you’re going to be full of ‘but she could have been <insert traumatic event>’ this morning … the better response is ‘but you weren’t’ and some follow up teaching on how to handle the situation.

I would be very cross with him. He's older and was with his friends he should have made sure she was ok.

Yes, I’m in the middle on this one too. He could have done more, but he was likely a bit pissed, and an adult should be perfectly capable of getting a taxi themselves. I’d have a quiet word about it to your son, but reading the riot act won’t go down well and will likely make things worse. Your DD sounds like she needs to toughen up/grow up a bit? She’s an adult and she’ll struggle in life if she can’t get a taxi on her own!

Wow some harsh replies!

She sounds like a lovely girl. I think a lot of young women would be shocked the first time they were exposed to open drug taking. She then couldn't find the people she was with, then skeevy guys were trying to touch her, the she got locked outside in a city she doesn't know. I feel like I would have felt a bit panicked too.

It sounds like everything just spiralled.

She does sound a little sheltered and could do with plans of action to help her next time something like this happens.

She did the right thing trying to contact brother (it's very likely he didn't realise his phone was ringing), she then contacted you. I remember also being worried about taking cabs alone at that age (I still do!) but unfortunately for women its choosing the least risky option a lot of the time (you could talk to her about using a recorded taxi booking / uber).

I think there's a need her to develop resilience - very bluntly...'you are going to find yourself in scary situations, your first thought should be not to panic/calm down and come up with a plan. There is always something you can do.'

I definitely looked after my more sheltered female friends at uni when I knew they didn't have much experience of clubs.

I definitely made mistakes when first going travelling alone, put myself in risky situations but I was lucky and was much wiser afterwards!

Chalk it up to a learning experience.

Your DS probably has a limited insight into what it is to be female alone in an intimidating environment/the world!

You have a point to be annoyed but I’d calm down the ‘absolutely disgusted and beyond angry’. Yes you were pretty naive about these kind of circles.

At 19 your daughter has learned a bit of street smart which is great of she’s planning to go out clubbing again.

Looking after ourselves looks very different depending on where we are. If you are used to a small town or village, getting home from a night out is easy. The next big town might still be pretty small. Drop that person into the middle of London, it's not easy at all, especially for the less confident among us.

How was he supposed to know that she'd left the toilet and the club?

You've no idea how well he'd 'kept an eye on her' before this incident.

Does she have no responsibility at all for leaving the place they were at together?

Can we stop normalising this type of behaviour?

I'm with your husband on this one. I'd just leave it and not let it ruin the break. It's not worth that. You could say you'd have preferred him to have looked after her more. However this is a good learning opportunity for your daughter. You don't leave your friend group on a night out esp leaving the venue as then you risk not getting back in. There are always other people doing their thing, your son isn't responsible for others taking drugs etc.

I think your son was a dick. Someone tells him his younger sister (who he knows is naive) has “gone home” and he doesn’t text her to double check that’s true. He just assumes that she’s ok and carries on.

He didn’t know that she’d had a panic attack and got locked out the club. But also, he didn’t know if she was suddenly unwell, he didn’t know if she was with anyone, or if someone was taking advantage of her.

The very least he could have done was try to contact her at that point he realised she wasn’t in the club.

His response is shit - I would be furious. The bar is so low given the responses on here.

perhaps as a man he has no appreciation for how at risk a naive woman unused to London is in those types of places. But men, no less her brother, need to step up and take accountability for the actions of other men. He is lucky nothing worse happened to her. Your daughter put herself in danger but at the same time the danger is only there because so many men are gropey, rapey and violent. He needs to do better - both he and his girlfriend lack empathy.

I grew up in Wales but moved to London in my early 20s. Whenever my girlfriends visited from wales and came clubbing with me- I didn’t let them out of sight. Not in the club, not on the tube. We’d go to the toilets as a whole group. I know the experiences I had in London when I was young and naive, which involved an altercation at knifepoint outside my front door, being chased home from tube station by a strange man, being assaulted and groped by men on the tube and in clubs. There’s no fucking way I’d invite a younger sister on a night out in London knowing she’s not used to that type of clubbing and then just leave her to it. Insane.

This.

Bend your ds' ear when he's back, but for goodness sake teach your dd the difference between a black cab and a minicab. At 19 she needs to know how to get herself home safely, and have the funds available. Equally, how to avoid sleazy old men.

I'd be so disappointed if my sons acted like this.

I don’t get the holier than thou comments with nightlife. And it is not about clubbing. This is about a 19 y/o’s excessive reliance on others to get through and her lack of skills.

(I hate when people try to make a point by putting them as an example but…) I barely went to a couple of light disco sessions before 18 in my hometown being home by 21. I love to dance and that’s the only reason I have done some nightclubs in uni. At 36, I haven’t tried not even a cigarette, I don’t recall seeing anyone having drugs until mid-20s and I have never drunk alcohol, not even back then. Yet, I see this scenario and see a young lady lacking resources when needed and in hindsight only restoring on excuses as to why she was not able to sort out the situation without having to call mom and dad and ultimately getting some well-meaning ladies that saw her panicking in the middle of London to get her a cab.

Has she done any self-reflection? Does she think she learned something other than “no more nightclubs for me”? Again, as a mother I would be worried she was so helpless in such a relatively simple situation in her home country not long after midnight.

I fully get her being annoyed she was stuck outside, not knowing which area she was or where the people she came with was. I only see her calling you as the best option (rather than waiting and insisting on her brother/gf) if she was running out of battery and wanted you to keep trying while she waits outside/keeps insisting with the bouncer.

It’s hard to conceive someone would make such a meal of something I was doing regularly from 15. But I don’t think you need that to know not to run out of a place alone without telling anyone where you’re going, or expect security to let you back in.

It’s a lesson on how vulnerable young people are with no life experience or street smarts.

There are drugs in clubs, there are sleazy men, if you don’t want to deal with that, which is absolutely fair enough, then don’t go.

Omg how come half of the peope voted yabu?! I am shocked. She is his sister, they went out together, she didnt know anyone, didnt know the place, doesnt know london, its was his freaking job to just be around so nothing could’ve happened! Its not a babysitting for crying out loud. He was the only familiar face and anything could have happened! Someone could spiked her drink and raped her, since there was no one around she was an easy target.

The bar is so low given the responses on here.

How?

He was keeping an eye on her.

She left.

No, men shouldn't behave like sleazy arseholes towards women they don't know but acknowledging that some do isn't normalising it and pretending that they don't or just stating that they shouldn't isn't going to protect anyone.

She shouldn't have left. That's basic.

Why on earth did the daughter agree to go on this night out ...she was the one that wanted 'the opportunity'. She had a meal out with all the people beforehand so she could judge whether she would be happy to go clubbing with them afterwards and she chose to do that. She could have gone home after the meal.
The son is blameless.

It’s not just about your background / upbringing. Your personality plays a role too. I had a fairly sheltered upbringing but I couldn’t wait to go off travelling at 18 - on my own for some of the time. I just can’t imagine my 17-year old daughter doing that even though we live in a city. She is a homebody and quite shy. I think she will grow into herself when she leaves home but she’s not ready yet.

I think you’re focusing on the wrong thing. I don’t beleive your son behaved unreasonably , he didn’t hear the phone, he didn’t say he would baby sit her, just keep an eye out.

you need to focus on the fact you have an adult who cannot go and get a cab back to th4 hotel and needs looking after to this extent, this is a concern. I think if you deep breath and step back you will see how deeply concerning your daughters inability to do basic adult tasks is very damaging for her. She needs support, and to learn how to manage different situations.

@LateAF What on earth were you expecting him to do? She went to the bathroom then ran out of the club without telling him where she was going. Why on earth did she not go and find him and let him know she wanted to leave? She was with his friend, she was the one who left her.

I don’t think he is to blame here. Your DD chose to go outside and couldn’t get back in, that’s not his fault. He didn’t his phone ringing in a noisy club, again not his fault. Your DD got a taxi back, she wasn’t left to walk the streets alone.

What is your DD doing on her gap year? I hope it is something like an intensive course in Thai kick boxing that boosts her confidence. You need balls to cope in a nightclub environment these days.

She shouldn't have left. That's basic.

Yep.