“Miss” and “Sir” in schools

[MyCleverGrayBear]

Been to lots of secondary school open days recently. At the state secondaries the children showing parents around etc called the teachers “Sir” and “Miss”. Is that normal? I haven’t heard this IRL ever.

(To be clear, “Miss, this parent wants to know about languages at school” vs “Mrs Jones, this parent would like to see the sports centre”. But also in a couple of classrooms there were children constantly saying “Miss, look at this, Miss, I’ve out the sign up, Miss, shall I stand here” etc and it was incredibly grating.)

And why are female teachers “Miss” and make teachers “Sir”? I felt like I was in a bad 80’s Grange Hill episode and Benny Hill was about to run in and chase me 🫣

I did part of my teacher training in a school where female teachers were called ma'am and male teachers were called sir. I think this is more equal than 'miss' and 'sir', given that few people today realise that miss is for mistress, meaning expert in their trade.

As a 50 something female teacher it amused me when they called me “miss” - however it amused me more when they forgot themselves and accidentally called me “mum” - especially if it was the class cool dude 😂😂

Takes me back to when I was in the Prison Service and all the cons called me "Miss" Most of them were very polite with it too.

I like it in schools too as it shows respect.

Accept whatever is the norm in that school and focus on what matters - how good the teaching seems to be and how happy your child is.

It's always the cool dude!!

Again with the sexist language. Do we hear men being told not to “fret”?

I can promise you, no fretting is being done here.

My children’s grammar school students address as Sir Doctor Professor Miss etc I thought this was quite normal !

Teacher of 20+ years here. It’s the norm in state schools to directly address teachers as ‘Sir’ or ‘Miss’. It’s an anachronism from the time they would be referred to as ‘Master Smith’ or ‘Mistress Jones’, and has gradually evolved into the current version. Most students DO know their teachers’ names, but aren’t going to use it continually in the classroom, where’s only one teacher present, and it’s obvious who they are addressing with ‘Sir’ or ‘Miss’.

Also, every school I have taught in lists female teachers as ‘Ms Jones’, on the website and in letters/emails, rather than ‘Miss’ or ‘Mrs’. Students do not need to know a teacher’s marital status. Some teachers do of course wish to be listed as ‘Mrs’ or ‘Dr’, and schools accommodate that.

Students nowadays know to WRITE a teacher’s name as ‘Ms Whatever’, and I genuinely think they often assume that ‘Miss’ is just the verbal version of that.

As for schools where teachers are called by their first names, 😱, it demonstrates a total lack of respect for staff, and undermines professional/personal boundaries. Teachers are in a position of authority and responsibility, they are not your child’s friend!

Normal in NE, & Berkshire & Oxfordshire....though often intermingled with the teachers names. They will know their teachers names but the ones at the open evening may not teach them regularly so it's easier to say sir or miss. I think it's polite shorthand.

Yes it’s normal, but to me it’s exceptionally rude and I correct my kids.

Totally normal. Did you not go to secondary school in the UK?

What are you talking about?

Yes I did. And along with lots of other people on this thread I called all members of staff at school by their full names.

Quite a number of people have explained this isnt the case in every secondary school.

I went to school in the 80’s and I used sir and miss then. I know my son does the same now in his school but in the school where I work, our students call us by our first names. I work in SEN and you can always tell those from mainstream as they’re the ones using sir and miss or teacher.

As a teacher it doesn't bother me at all. Most kids call me Miss, they all know I am Ms Purple though and will sometimes use it.

As long as they are respectful they can call me Miss - quite often get mum though, followed by giggling and 'I just called Miss mum"

I’ve remembered something else from school being called by my second name too not just girl. I bloody hated it, but back when I was in school I was smacked with a ruler over the knuckles. Good old vinegar helped there or the belt on the hands now that stung. Thankfully it’s now all banned. Sorry for the de rail there

if you think it’s sexist @MyCleverGrayBear being called just Miss over the Sir take it up with the school or better yet the school governors or even the government.

I mean, yeah. It’s sexist. Take it up with the governors? No. Ensure that my child uses full names? Yes. If they end up going to that school.

What a weird question! Yes of course it’s normal, it’s what happens in thousands of schools.

This isn’t the biggest problem secondary teachers have tbh. What a lot of fuss over nothing.
it seems fortunate you have the resources to pick a school which conforms to your preferred naming convention.
I can’t say it crossed my mind to ask when we were looking at schools, though I have indeed noted it - and also the fact that some teachers are never referred to as Miss. I assume they have asked the pupils not to.

Quite a few people, including teachers, have taken the time to explain the origins, explained that it's not unique to schools, that not all schools do it, that it's intended to be neither disrespectful or sexist.

So why, Op, are you still insisting it's sexist? Haven't you been reading all these explanations?

how on earth do you plan on 'ensuring' that when your kids are fifteen and you're not in school with them?
Kids want to fit in with their peers. They might very well code-switch and say 'Mr Thomas' if you nag them enough at home but in school they aren't going to risk being made fun of by doing something out of the ordinary, particularly if it's not something they care about at all.

Exactly, the respect is exactly the same. Teachers calk each other sir and miss in front of the dc too.

It was certainly a thing in the ‘good old days’ of grammar schools, corporal punishment, mortar boards, and senior common rooms. Like a cargo cult, Conservative educationalists ape the motions of education practice without ever understanding the reasons. I have never, ever called anyone senior ‘Sir’ or ‘Madam’ and I never will.

(I feel really old.)
Yes - they were ‘Miss’ and ‘Sir’ when I left school in the 70s.

As an aside, I was briefly involved in healthcare provision at a local female prison
and was called ‘Miss’ there, as were the prison officers.