“Miss” and “Sir” in schools

[MyCleverGrayBear]

Been to lots of secondary school open days recently. At the state secondaries the children showing parents around etc called the teachers “Sir” and “Miss”. Is that normal? I haven’t heard this IRL ever.

(To be clear, “Miss, this parent wants to know about languages at school” vs “Mrs Jones, this parent would like to see the sports centre”. But also in a couple of classrooms there were children constantly saying “Miss, look at this, Miss, I’ve out the sign up, Miss, shall I stand here” etc and it was incredibly grating.)

And why are female teachers “Miss” and make teachers “Sir”? I felt like I was in a bad 80’s Grange Hill episode and Benny Hill was about to run in and chase me 🫣

I was doing this in the 90's. Very normal.

Yes, I thought thus was Grange Hill only too and vaguely assumed it was because the teachers were (in the main) peripheral to the storylines!

That was the norm when I was I'm secondary school in the mid to late 90's and I assumed it was unlikely to change.

It's all very well expecting the kids to know the names of the teachers who teach their classes but in a secondary school of 1000+ kids, there are going to be far more teachers and other staff that they don't see on a daily/weekly basis so don't know the names of.

Same here, my school in the &0s every teacher was Miss or Sir. In my kids secondary they have so many supply teachers it would be impossible to remember, or even know their names in the first place!

When I was at school (blows off cobwebs) we had a lax uniform and called our teachers Mr/Mrs/Dr/Miss Surname. Same place now has blazers, tartan skirts, ties and all the teachers are Miss and Sir. Direction of travel I guess. No idea when it happened!

Miss/Sir is used all the time.

It also ensures respect when kids don't know a teacher's name

Eurgh. Well I hated it. It sounded so dated and sexist. “Sir” would only be used as a term of respect for brevity when I was at school, but never, ever “Miss”. It sounds incredibly patronising to me.

I went to school in the 1960's (yes, that's right, I'm ancient) and we always used the teachers' surnames, so Mr Roberts/Miss Barnes.

It's a bit old fashioned (the Sir vs Miss) but it's almost like a job title really.
I see it to be like saying "Excuse me waiter" in a restaurant or "Excuse me doctor?" in a hospital.
I notice a lot that younger children often call their teacher just "teacher" 😂
(or sometimes "Mrs Teacher" or "Mr Teacher")

It was miss and sir at my school in the 80s

OK, so a random child has to memorise the names and faces of around 60-120 members of staff including the ones they will never have any dealings with beyond passing in a corridor once a year (and then also psychically knowing the names and marital status of all supply, temps, governors, clerks, advisors, consultants, counsellors, coaches, mentors, TAs, groundskeepers - and repeating this feat with new staff on the first day of next term).

If they somehow fail to achieve that, how do the conversations go?

'Excuse me, you.', 'After you, um, you', 'Yes, um, Mr?', 'She said I could - her over there, that woman', 'Yes, Missus, no, Mr'.

Miss and Sir works fine, not just for kids but for staff, too, as it saves having your first name called across the kids because somebody doesn't know who you are or has had a blank when they can't think of your surname out of 79 others. And like kids, when you get clusters of ages, you're going to have who share first names - Lucy, James, Stephen, Charles, Rebecca/Becca/Becky, Vicky/Vicki/Victoria, etc.

Secondary. I'm in Ireland. It's a small close knit school where there is a lot of respect between students and teachers. When I was in secondary it was Miss and Sir but I presumed times had changed, another poster on this thread said her kids school in Ireland is Miss and Sir so maybe it's not the norm at all schools. In primary it was Múinteoir(teacher in Irish) for my kids, so they've never done Miss or Sir.

I'm a teacher and at my school it's first names only for teachers

We use Miss, Mr, and Mrs.

It was all Sir and Miss when I was at school. On the first day, a female teacher might announce herself as Mrs. Armstrong and try to reinforce that all week, then mostly put up with being called Miss.

We had two Doctors (PhD quals) who insisted and got really wound up, which incited us to annoy them on purpose with "Mr. Sayers / Miss Murphy."

What japes! If they hadn't been arrogant and grumpy, we'd probably have come round. Dr. Sayers was an arrogant, snobbish, public school twat, God knows why he took a job in Newcastle.

I've taught for over 30 years and it has been this in every single school I've ever worked in.

I'm astonished that anyone is 'surprised' to find this is the norm in England.

I loved that when I worked in a school. It's less formal than "Mrs Jones" but still respectful and even affectionate.

Perfectly normal.
Kids in secondary have up to 30 teachers at a time plus supply plus cover.
Sir and Miss keeps it simple and clear.

Miss and Sir here, as it was when I was at school (in a completely different part of the country and several decades ago). First names in sixth form, also as it was when I was at school.

"...would only be used as a term of respect for brevity"

Precisely this, that is why "sir" and "miss" are used. It is so much easier and quicker to simply say "Miss" rather than something like "Mrs Blenkinsop!"
.

"but never, ever “Miss”. It sounds incredibly patronising to me."

It may do to you, but for many it is a normal language to use to a woman in a position of authority in a school.

And, indeed, sometimes outside as well. For example, I have heard the term "Miss" used as a term of respect when speaking to a female police officer or prison warder.

I suspect there's a little bit of faux surprise going on here really.

i never knew this & I worked in a school for years (not a teacher). I was still called Miss though.

It was the same in the late 60s and 70s.

Been that way all my life. Primary and secondary. Same now.

When I taught secondary in an all boys state school I was called Ma'am! 😬