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Original poster

“Miss” and “Sir” in schools

1000 replies

MyCleverGrayBear · 18/10/2024 15:58

Been to lots of secondary school open days recently. At the state secondaries the children showing parents around etc called the teachers “Sir” and “Miss”. Is that normal? I haven’t heard this IRL ever.

(To be clear, “Miss, this parent wants to know about languages at school” vs “Mrs Jones, this parent would like to see the sports centre”. But also in a couple of classrooms there were children constantly saying “Miss, look at this, Miss, I’ve out the sign up, Miss, shall I stand here” etc and it was incredibly grating.)

And why are female teachers “Miss” and make teachers “Sir”? I felt like I was in a bad 80’s Grange Hill episode and Benny Hill was about to run in and chase me 🫣

OP posts:
Skybluepinky · 20/10/2024 20:52

If I see any of my old teachers I always call them miss or Sur it’s a sign of respect.

AnnieAzul · 20/10/2024 20:54

Sometimesright · 20/10/2024 20:42

Yeah in 1978 we also learned sarcasm is the lowest form of wit!!

Show quote history

1978 they said that but they also loved Jim Davidson and Benny Hill back then. We moved on thank god

WindsurfingDreams · 20/10/2024 20:56

AnnieAzul · 20/10/2024 20:54

1978 they said that but they also loved Jim Davidson and Benny Hill back then. We moved on thank god

Show quote history

Well, some of us did Wink

AnnieAzul · 20/10/2024 20:59

WindsurfingDreams · 20/10/2024 20:56

Well, some of us did Wink

Show quote history

Yes, some are still stuck in the good ole days.

Pieceofpurplesky · 20/10/2024 21:47

Every time there is a thread about anything to do with teachers this happens. One or two posters telling teachers what they should do without actually being a teacher themselves.

25 years in the classroom and only one teacher has ever said they dislike being Miss. I must have worked with hundreds of teachers.

It works in the schools I, and many others, have worked in. Personally I would hate to be called by my first name all day - I would get bored of hearing it. I dread to think how many times I am called Miss in a day. I am also called and referred to as Miss Purple. I don't think it indoctrinates any child to become misogynistic or down trodden as a woman. It's just a word in schools.

NowImNotDoingIt · 20/10/2024 22:05

It really is different in a school setting. Sir does not bring more respect than Miss. if the kids respect you, they will regardless of your title or the way they address you. I have loads of kids that call me miss , loads that call me miss Now,some call me miss N , one that calls me Mrs. Now. It's frankly, irrelevant. What matters is their behaviour and attitude towards me.

And Sir, is just as likely as Miss to be a bastard/cunt/prick/ whatever and be told to fuck off .Grin

NaneePolly · 20/10/2024 22:39

This is the normal way to address teachers, with respect.

WindsurfingDreams · 20/10/2024 23:05

NaneePolly · 20/10/2024 22:39

This is the normal way to address teachers, with respect.

In some schools

It's clear from this thread it isn't the case in every school

NaneePolly · 20/10/2024 23:14

Maybe it should be in all schools, its a respectable address to teachers, Surely it can’t be a bad thing to teach young ones to have respect.

WindsurfingDreams · 20/10/2024 23:19

NaneePolly · 20/10/2024 23:14

Maybe it should be in all schools, its a respectable address to teachers, Surely it can’t be a bad thing to teach young ones to have respect.

As we have already established, it's got very little to do with actual respect for a multiplicity of reasons.

Not least even the world's least respectful child can use the word "miss" without it making them even the tiniest bit more respectful

NaneePolly · 20/10/2024 23:31

Building blocks

Natsku · 21/10/2024 04:26

NaneePolly · 20/10/2024 23:14

Maybe it should be in all schools, its a respectable address to teachers, Surely it can’t be a bad thing to teach young ones to have respect.

Respect is shown by behaviour not by a title students are forced to use, and I think its pretty clear from behaviour issues in British secondary schools that there is a lack of respect despite most schools forcing students to use Miss and Sir.

AnnieAzul · 21/10/2024 05:59

Many of the teachers on here are missing the point, it’s not about teachers or respect, it’s about unequal titles.

AnnieAzul · 21/10/2024 06:08

Pieceofpurplesky · 20/10/2024 21:47

Every time there is a thread about anything to do with teachers this happens. One or two posters telling teachers what they should do without actually being a teacher themselves.

25 years in the classroom and only one teacher has ever said they dislike being Miss. I must have worked with hundreds of teachers.

It works in the schools I, and many others, have worked in. Personally I would hate to be called by my first name all day - I would get bored of hearing it. I dread to think how many times I am called Miss in a day. I am also called and referred to as Miss Purple. I don't think it indoctrinates any child to become misogynistic or down trodden as a woman. It's just a word in schools.

This thread is not about teachers, it not about telling teachers what to do.

Teachers generally just go along with it.
For many of us and many teachers and heads, including the two examples that have been added to this thread. The titles Sir and Miss set a poor example of equality.

But you have decided to ignore that point and blindly say but I’m happy, other teachers are happy so I’ll ignore the unequal terms because that’s how it’s always been.

It’s worrying that teachers are missing the point so badly and repeatedly ignoring the point of equality.

It didn’t show equality when I had to use the terms back in 1990’s and doesn’t show equality now.

AnnieAzul · 21/10/2024 06:18

AnnieAzul · 19/10/2024 15:54

Calling teachers "Sir" or "Miss" is sexist, an academic has said. But why did these terms become the norm in British schools?
"Sir is a knight... but Miss is ridiculous - it doesn't match Sir at all," emeritus professor of English language and linguistics at the University of Roehampton. But how did these terms catch on?
There are no clear answers. But it seems that "Sir" took hold in the public schools of two or more centuries ago. It was common for boys in upper class families to call their fathers "Sir". "Sir" also became the default term of respect for male authority figures, including teachers, in an age of deference. Grammar schools "aped" the tone of boarding schools, says Dr William Richardson, general secretary at the Headmaster's Conference - the group representing independent schools. And "Sir" soon spread from private to grammar, and eventually into the wider state system. The equivalent term of deference for a woman at this time was "Ma'am". But few schools use this, although a school in Runcorn has used "Madam".
"Miss" is a different story. Until the 1944 Education Act, women teachers could not marry and remain in post. Teaching had been seen as incompatible with a wife's domestic duties. When a female teacher tried to overturn the law in 1925, external the Court of Appeal ruled against her: "It is unfair to the large number of young unmarried teachers seeking situations that the positions should be occupied by married women, who presumably have husbands capable of maintaining them." So before the marriage bar was lifted, "Miss" was always going to be accurate. Although the fact male teachers were not "Mr" gives credence to the idea that female teachers had second-class status.
Some British schools prefer a more egalitarian tone with first names being used. This is standard practice in Sweden. Meanwhile in France there is parity between men and women - maitre and maitresse at primary level, monsieur or madame above that. In many UK schools today, teachers are called by their name, such as Mr Jones or Mrs Jones. But in some, a woman teacher - even one who is married - continues to be referred to as "Miss". In many private schools there is a different kind of disparity. While male teachers are always known as "Sir", female teachers are called by their name - "Mrs Jones", for instance.
Follow BBC

This

AnnieAzul · 21/10/2024 06:19

AnnieAzul · 19/10/2024 14:32

London school drops ‘Sir’ and ‘Miss’ honorifics to fight cultural misogyny
This article is more than 1 year old
Principal of high-performing sixth form said two forms are ‘deeply unequal’ and diminish women

Education correspondent
Tue 6 Jun 2023 18.10 BST

Teachers at a leading sixth form will no longer answer to “Sir” and “Miss”, because they’re “deeply unequal” and feed into a view of the world that diminishes women, the school’s executive principal has told students.
While “Sir” brings to mind the heroics of Sir Lancelot and Sir Galahad, “Miss” is how you refer to “a small girl, or an Edwardian shop assistant”, James Handscombe told school assembly at Harris Westminster Sixth Form in central London.

Students will instead be required to address staff by their name – as in “Mr Handscombe” – and failing that, in an emergency where a pupil may have forgotten and needs a swift alternative, “teacher” will be acceptable, “in a pinch”.
It is not the first time the school has tried to make the switch. When it opened in 2014, the same approach was attempted but there was too much else to think about, staff could not make it stick and “sank into cultural misogyny”, Handscombe told students.“Which is what this is,” he said. “I don’t think that any of you are being actively woman-hating when you call ‘Miss’ over to get help with your chemistry, but we’re all feeding into a view of the world that diminishes women.
“Men get to be fearless leaders and alpha types, get credited for hustling whilst behind the backs of women it’s asked whether they deserve it, whether their career comes from good ideas or good looks, power moves or diversity lists.”
The sixth form was set up as a collaboration between Westminster School and the Harris Federation as a highly selective free school that gives priority to disadvantaged students with academic potential. It has quickly become one of the highest-performing sixth forms in the UK.

This

borntobequiet · 21/10/2024 06:50

AnnieAzul · 21/10/2024 05:59

Many of the teachers on here are missing the point, it’s not about teachers or respect, it’s about unequal titles.

Happily most teachers live in the real world and have the sense to understand that this is bollocks.

Phineyj · 21/10/2024 06:51

Yes, well, Harris sixth form is tiny compared to the average London comprehensive of say 2,000.

It comes down to practicality. In most normal size secondaries there are situations every day where you need to get an adult's attention and don't know their name. Miss or Sir is more polite than the alternatives.

Original poster
MyCleverGrayBear · 21/10/2024 07:11

NaneePolly · 20/10/2024 23:14

Maybe it should be in all schools, its a respectable address to teachers, Surely it can’t be a bad thing to teach young ones to have respect.

And maybe calling members of staff by their actual name should be in all schools?

OP posts:
Zanatdy · 21/10/2024 07:13

We called teachers Sir and Miss in the late 80’s. It’s pretty standard

Perky1 · 21/10/2024 07:27

It’s a sign of respect and also a decades long tradition. I wouldn’t want it erased, it’s a smidgen of British culture.

PrincessHoneysuckle · 21/10/2024 08:07

All teachers and ta are sir or miss at my work.
Not a big deal at all.

AnnieAzul · 21/10/2024 08:15

Phineyj · 21/10/2024 06:51

Yes, well, Harris sixth form is tiny compared to the average London comprehensive of say 2,000.

It comes down to practicality. In most normal size secondaries there are situations every day where you need to get an adult's attention and don't know their name. Miss or Sir is more polite than the alternatives.

But unequal

AnnieAzul · 21/10/2024 08:15

PrincessHoneysuckle · 21/10/2024 08:07

All teachers and ta are sir or miss at my work.
Not a big deal at all.

Unequal

AnnieAzul · 21/10/2024 08:15

Perky1 · 21/10/2024 07:27

It’s a sign of respect and also a decades long tradition. I wouldn’t want it erased, it’s a smidgen of British culture.

It’s unequal

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