“Miss” and “Sir” in schools

[MyCleverGrayBear]

Been to lots of secondary school open days recently. At the state secondaries the children showing parents around etc called the teachers “Sir” and “Miss”. Is that normal? I haven’t heard this IRL ever.

(To be clear, “Miss, this parent wants to know about languages at school” vs “Mrs Jones, this parent would like to see the sports centre”. But also in a couple of classrooms there were children constantly saying “Miss, look at this, Miss, I’ve out the sign up, Miss, shall I stand here” etc and it was incredibly grating.)

And why are female teachers “Miss” and make teachers “Sir”? I felt like I was in a bad 80’s Grange Hill episode and Benny Hill was about to run in and chase me 🫣

Does that anecdote from one holiday camp trump the experience of all the longstanding teachers (and also people who went to different schools)?

Meant to add - it's already been agreed that private schools often don't use miss and sir, but the country isn't divided into just private schools and deprived schools. It's the norm in state schools full stop, and has been for a pretty long time.

Of course not, but it's hard to say it's the norm.when plenty of other posters on here have recounted the same experience of calling their teachers by name at school.

I went to state school. DH did. Most of the students helping on that trip did. And none of us called our teachers "sir/miss".

With my PhD in pure maths I am “miss” to my students. Why would I care? Students will respect teachers who earn that respect by being a good and fair teacher. Demanding to be addressed as Dr whatever just indicates a fragile ego IMO.

As many of us have said, we do BOTH! This is a possibility. I don't know why some posters are so determined to believe these misses and sirs can't exist alongside students knowing and using full names.

I'd find a school that absolutely insisted on any particular format of address oppressive.

I am called a range of things. To my face, Miss is most common but when referring to me or introducing myself I am obviously Mrs Piggy. The kids, as I said before, when referring to me by name call me Piggy (surname only, hate that), PWP (initials not that keen but has been used as a term of affection by some dear colleagues) and, most commonly Miss Piggy (not correct - but meh). Kids these days really don't get worked up by marital statuses to the extent they just seem to think Miss covers all bases. Most colleagues would call me Mrs Piggy when students are around. Some, especially when trying to defuse a situation might refer to me as Miss to emphasise I mean adult authority. I'd dot he same and say 'hi Sir/Miss' to a site agent, careers adviser, cleaner, TA, student helper etc if they appear in my room and students are present, especially if I know first name but not surname. It's just the restricted code of the education system in this country. Some schools might not do it, but most just use a mix of appropriate address.

Male teachers get called all of those versions too. Nicknames seem a bit more common.

I would definitley have issues with being called 'teacher' and that is certainly not commonplace in the UK.

Don't sweat the small stuff.

But they do , so even that is a random assertion. In fact the whole 'yes, what, boy??!' 'Sir, yes, Sir' comes from public school insistence on not using names as it was regarded as too familiar. Teachers were 'Sir' and students in old fashioned boys' schools were surname only. DH's school is exactly the same as mine and the really rather posh boys' school in my town definitley refers to all adult males as Sir and women as Miss. Constantly. In every sentence.

Anyway, as we both agree - not a biggie!

It’s standard. I rather like being called Miss. But there are some schools local to me where female teachers are addressed as Madam.

I'm now thinking of 'They call Mister Tibbs' !

I went to a girls' grammar and we didn't. Dh went to a comp and did. Including my teaching practice, I've taught in 10 secondary schools, in 8 of which sir and miss were the norm (the other 2 were a provate school and a grammar school) and have discussed it with a lot of teachers at my current school (because it's changing there), for whom it has always been the norm in all the state schools they've taught in.

They do, yes, but I think probably less universally than state schools - well, with 'miss', anyway. Some use sir and ma'am/madam. But there are others where Mr/Mrs surname is the norm. At the (Northern, diverse, not posh) grammar school where I teach, there's definitely a sense that the aversion to miss/sir among the older teachers is more to do with feeling it's a decline in proper, old-school standards rather than something sexust or disrespectful. They are mostly teachers who have not taught outside a grammar school for 30 or 40 years.

Surely it’s the norm in secondary school, different in primary where there’s only the one teacher(normally), why is it an issue

Something that lots of people don’t realise is the astonishing diversity of state schools. It’s not just comprehensive vs grammar. Lots of comprehensives have their own traditions, eccentricities, ways of addressing staff and so on. Schools reflect their communities and their histories (which may be deeply rooted in the past).
However, addressing teachers as Miss and Sir is widespread, if not ubiquitous.

No. Just pointing out a sexist term.

Cringe away. It was something I hadn’t heard since Grange Hill in the 80’s. That’s just a fact.

See, no grammar schools round here but a few privates and they all do Miss/Sir. At least definitely the boys only and mixed sex ones. Don't know about the girls' school.

But I can hear the whole script of Jack Rosenthal's grammar school set P'tang Yang Kipperbang in my head and all the teachers are Miss and Sir (it's set in 1848!).

Seriously.

Find something worthwhile to get concerned about.

It isn’t though, is it?

It is said to both women and men.

This. It’s clearly prevalent but I’m not the only person who does not find “Sir/Miss” the norm either now as a parent or a few years ago as a student.

Its ok for us to have different experiences.

It seems it's only OK when people agree with your version of events though?

I can be concerned about 1001 things at the same time. This isn’t my primary concern, unsurprisingly. I just wondered how common it was. Sheesh.

I find it hard to invisage a school kid saying Madam (I forgot my homework). Madam sounds so strange doesn’t it?

That’s not what I said at all. But people insisting it’s the norm and they’ve never come across schools where Sir/Miss aren’t used and it’s “completely normal” etc are banging their drums pretty loudly. Of course we all have different experiences. But the minority experience is still valid. It’s still anathema to me (and others) to hear teachers being addressed without their full names.

One of my female colleagues got married and changed the name on her badge to Dr new surname.
Kids genuinely thought that she'd taken his title as well as his name 🤣
She's referred to as Miss, MrsSurname, Doc and Doc Surname.

Oh I see, women with clear views and opinions have to be put down as 'hard work'. I'd stop digging. You are just adding to the list of sexist tropes.