“Miss” and “Sir” in schools

[MyCleverGrayBear]

Been to lots of secondary school open days recently. At the state secondaries the children showing parents around etc called the teachers “Sir” and “Miss”. Is that normal? I haven’t heard this IRL ever.

(To be clear, “Miss, this parent wants to know about languages at school” vs “Mrs Jones, this parent would like to see the sports centre”. But also in a couple of classrooms there were children constantly saying “Miss, look at this, Miss, I’ve out the sign up, Miss, shall I stand here” etc and it was incredibly grating.)

And why are female teachers “Miss” and make teachers “Sir”? I felt like I was in a bad 80’s Grange Hill episode and Benny Hill was about to run in and chase me 🫣

I went to a grammar and it was considered extremely rude. We had to address teachers as “Mr Smith” or “Miss Henderson”. If anyone dared say ‘Miss’, they’d have been swiftly told off.

Yet when I became a teacher, it seemed most schools allowed/encouraged the Miss/Sir thing. I always struggled to see it as anything but rude due to my experience at school.

In the school I taught in, we used to run a week of aspirational activities and trips just before we broke up for the summer for years 7-10 and 12.

For the first few years I was there I would end up on the year 7 week because my subject was loosely connected with the arts and all the activities were arts ones.

The kids didn't know me as I only taught years 10-13 and pastorally I wasn't connected to the year group.

We would do carousel workshops so it was a stream of different faces on rotation. It was really useful to already have a culture of 'Miss' and 'Sir' as it allowed us to crack on with the interesting stuff.

The school would start NQTs in July, so they would join us for the aspiration week. On a trip you (a teacher) would suddenly find yourself having to address an unknown member of staff in front of the pupils. 'Miss' and 'Sir' were perfect for this as you could address them/get their attention whilst still giving/modelling the same level of respect afforded to all teachers without it being obvious that you didn't know their names.

Well yes. And I’m not insisting that anyone agrees with me. I’m explaining how it sounded to me. And 75 in a year group in a junior school. 180 in a year at my older child’s secondary school (where they also don’t use Miss/Sir and use the actual names and somehow manage it. And if they need to attract the attention of someone they don’t know they can say “excuse me” like they would out of school in pretty much any situation.)

I have “worked that out”. Totally fine by me. If the school culture is first names, great.

I think this is colouring my view too. When someone called a teacher Miss (because they had forgotten the name normally) they were told off because it was rude. Learning teachers names was expected and important to be courteous.

I’d like to remind all the posters who have schools with 735367 children per year that the school I went to visit is not huge and only 11-16. So most children should know the names of most teacher by year 9/10 (which these children were).

Unless you actually work in your child’s school, you really don’t know how the pupils address the staff. Also, in a room full of 30+ students, one person saying ‘excuse me’ won’t necessarily got the attention of the teacher.

I do know. It’s not the culture at all. In either school. I asked both children just now and they looked at me very strangely. It’s not a thing in lots of schools. Full names, always. Including for members of staff who work in the kitchens, grounds staff etc.

As I mentioned before, I do not think it is rude- I certainly know my pupils mean it with respect.

What I really do find rude, is male staff who call me Miss,l, (despite knowing me) when there are no children around 🤢. Never happens with women.

What a weird thing to be getting knickers in a twist about! Particularly as teachers don’t find it disrespectful…

People don’t often tell men they’re “getting their knickers in a twist” do they. Hmm.

well OP I am entirely on your side. Miss is NOT equivalent to Sir!

have just been watching Ludwig where the senior police officers are Sir or Ma’am - which makes much more sense (tho it also punctures the nonsense of the Sir)

there really is no reason for kids not to know teacher names. They generally do anyway!! Why not Mrs X or Dr Y???

in lots of places you’d call a teacher whose name you don’t know ‘Teacher’…

I wonder how many times per lesson or in a corridor kids address me. 'Miss' is much quicker than 'Mrs themoth'. And I'd get mightily sick of hearing my name over and over again.

*TheMoth *

of course but all these non teachers know better than us apparently and we should all be mortally offended or call out perfectly polite students lazy.

I’d hate to be called “teacher”! Sounds dehumanising.

There’s lots of things that are wrong with the education at the moment. Being called “miss” instead of “Mrs X” isn’t even on my radar.

Are you looking to be offended here?

People probably also don't often tell men what they ought to be offended by or what title they should be called by, or want to be called by.

In my opinion and in my long experience, the vast majority of female teachers find it completely normal, and not at all disrespectful, to be called 'Miss'. You don't like it, OP? Avoid becoming a teacher and you'll be fine.

Of course they do.

Just makes me think of Pink Floyd. HEY! TEACHER! LEAVE THEM KIDS ALONE.

Agreed. I am stunned so many people find it normal and haven't come across the other system of calling teachers by name.

"Miss, can I call you Gertrude?"
Yes of course you can.

It never lasts.

"Miss, can I call you Gertrude!"
No, but you can call me "Your Royal Highness""

Also never lasts.

Miss and Sir isn’t just prevalent, it’s the complete norm and the vast majority of posters on this thread find the terms acceptable and respectful. It was the norm 40 years ago and still is today. I know you were irritated by a pupil saying Miss Miss Miss, but wouldn’t you have been more irritated if they had said Mrs Cunningham, Mrs Cunningham, Mrs Cunningham.

It’s so patronising to say you thought it was like something of Grange Hill! I could cringe for you.

Yet I remember helping run a holiday camp at my university 20 years ago and all the students helping came from a mix of schools and all of us were astonished that the children who came to the camp (from a very deprived area) called all the adults Sir/Miss.

So it can't have been that much of a "norm"

Hard work. You are hard work. Where there is not a problem, you find one.

Here is a list of phrases people WOULD say to man in the same scenario…

Don’t get a bee in your bonnet
Keep your hair on
You are finding problems where they aren’t any
Keep your wig on
Calm down, calm down

Admittedly, there aren’t any references to a man’s underpants, like the knickers reference that has offended you, so no doubt you will see that as a personal attack on the female race. Have a day off Miss!