Page 6 | To ask if this is normal re: school mums

Propertyladder123 · 17/10/2024 16:41

iCantStopppEating · 17/10/2024 11:10

My daughter is in year 1 and I don’t feel I’m part of the “in crowd” which consists of a lot of her friends that she plays with everyday in school including her best friend. I’ve really tried and had one or two playdates since reception but majority they seem not to want to meet up as they are busy. I’ve gotten to know they have frequent get together with the kids and without. They went to dinner this week too. I got told by someone who is close to one of the in crowds that the mums don’t wish to be friends with people they consider are not wealthy and don’t live same lifestyle as them. It’s a very affluent area and yes I’m not exactly loaded but I wouldn’t see myself and my family as poor. This has really upset me.

Funny thing is the mums seems so lovely and friendly to my face and I genuinely thought they were busy but to now know they have meet-ups all the time I don’t know how to feel. There are other lovely mums in the class of 15 kids but it seems like the majority of girl mums have formed a group and excluded myself and anothe girl mum. I have tried to reach out to the other girl mum but she’s made it very clear she has 2 older ones and doesn’t have space or every for more friendships.

How do I stop feeling like this? There was a whole class meet up at the start and I genuinely thought I had gelled with them. Another point is they all knew each from the nursery they attended. My daughter didn’t go same nursery as we lived elsewhere before.

With a class of 15 is this a private school? That could be the issue as some will be exceptionally wealthy.

NerrSnerr · 17/10/2024 16:52

The whole 'only want to be friends because of wealth' thing is almost certainly bollocks and that person was shit stirring.

They're just a group of friends, that is all. Not everyone has to invite every acquaintance to social events.

ChiffandBipper · 17/10/2024 16:58

" the mums don’t wish to be friends with people they consider are not wealthy and don’t live same lifestyle as them."

Rubbish, nobody has said this. 99.99% of people don't care how much money people have... I can't imagine that the 0.01% who care about money are all mums of chuldren in the same class at the same school!

Just arrange a few more play dates, 1-2-1.

Bachboo · 17/10/2024 17:44

Completelyjo · 17/10/2024 14:12

Cliques … or in other words friends.

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No cliques

Bachboo · 17/10/2024 17:49

Cesarina · 17/10/2024 15:21

Threads on this issue crop up at regular intervals, with the usual differences of opinion which is of course as it should be.
But often there are PPs who can't/won't understand why not being included by school-gate mums is upsetting for the OP.
It's mean and insensitive to try and invalidate these feelings just because you haven't/didn't experience them.
If you have school-age children and for whatever reason have moved to an area where you know hardly anyone, I think it's perfectly understandable to hope to make friends at your child's/childrens' school - for their benefit and yours, but without making it the be-all-and-end-all.
For PPs here who don't believe school-gate cliques exist - they most certainly do, and you are very lucky not to have been affected by one.
@iCantStopppEating, I was shunned by a group of mums at my kids' primary school, despite making an effort as you have done. The clique seemed to consist of women who had, or whose husbands had, so-called "prestigious" professions, (eg doctors), and/or some wealth. I of course was in neither category! It was very real and I had zero self-esteem at the time so unfortunately I took it very personally.
I thought it was just me who was affected by this, but after the primary school years were over, I would bump into other mums from that era who had felt exactly the same. Had we known at the time, we should have formed our own clique!
I would love to be able to go back in time and handle things differently!
Experiencing such rejection can transport you right back to your own schooldays when you may have been bullied in the playground and/or felt left out. Some school-gate women can still behave as if they are superior, and there is often still a "queen bee"!
PPs on here have offered you suggestions as to why you may be being excluded, and advice as to what you could do about it.
I don't really have anything to add except that I emphasise and hope things get better for you

All of this ❤️

Bachboo · 17/10/2024 17:57

Completelyjo · 17/10/2024 12:19

They already know each other and are friends, that’s really all there is to it. They are polite and friendly if they come across you, like at the introductory party, but they don’t know you and aren’t fussed in going out of their way to make friends.
When my DC starts nursery next Sept we will have friends from antenatal, or nursery all locally who will be attending the same school. I will continue to hang out with them, do play dates, go for drinks after school and I’m not particularly fussed about making new friends. It’s enough to juggle work, DH, DC, my friends, joint friends and play date friends as it is.
That doesn’t make me a bitch or a mean school mum as many posters love to suggest.

This comes across as so smug. I wonder if you would feel the same if you were dropped from this group?

Bestfootfwd · 17/10/2024 18:01

LadyQuackBeth · 17/10/2024 11:26

The person I'd avoid is the one bitching that it's about wealth, that's their own issue and hugely unlikely to be true.

It's down to nursery, they've been friends longer, it's as simple as that. Try to get to know one or two, that either you like or are the mums of your DDs friends. It'll happen gradually.

I think I agree that the person telling you it’s about wealth is probably wrong - and is actually being very unhelpful. I remember when my children were small one mum told me that the “in crowd” mums only liked hanging out with good looking, slim people - so that was why we were being excluded. I never 100 per cent believed her, but it really stung, and it kind of put me off a whole group of people to be honest, so I wish she’d never said it.

leopardski · 17/10/2024 18:02

The person who’s gossiped about them only hanging out with ‘rich’ people is a bit of a knob to be honest. If it was already an established friendship group that’s probably your answer to be honest, OP. I’d try and just move past it. Do you see them at birthday parties etc if they’re all close friends?

User37482 · 17/10/2024 18:02

I think people do try to select friends on the basis of perceived social currency tbh, theres a whole host of studies on this type of thing.

OP you can’t change how people behave, theres not much you can do. I would say that most children want to make their own friends. I know kids who’s parents are chummy so spend a lot of time together but at school seem to avoid each other so I wouldn’t worry too much about it affecting your DD. Children eventually choose their own mates on the basis of who they actually like and then start pestering their parents about it. Dd couldn’t give a monkeys if I like her friends or not, she’s pleased that I like her best friends mum but even if I didn’t this wouldn’t affect her friendship.

It is hurtful when it seems to be most of the mums and you are on the periphery but it is what it is. Focus on your DD, go to the parties or whatever, smile and be friendly but I would just stop asking if they aren’t interested. Take your DD to hobby groups, you may find more likeminded parents there.

Personally I found the first year of the school gate stuff quite hard. There were definitely groups forming. I just made a point of being friendly. I’m definitely not included in a few groups but if I’m honest I’m an introvert and I think I would eventually find it unbearable even if initially I felt a bit green around the gills about it. My ethnicity definitely had an impact here which was a bit disappointing to realise.

User37482 · 17/10/2024 18:04

Bachboo · 17/10/2024 17:57

This comes across as so smug. I wonder if you would feel the same if you were dropped from this group?

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Yeah I don’t really get this, I try to sweep up people or include them in conversation. Whats one more person in a group whatsapp or at a group dinner or group playdate. Doesn’t make any difference to me tbh.

Bachboo · 17/10/2024 18:04

Holotropic · 17/10/2024 14:17

I wasn’t ’lucky’, other than I happened to meet people where a mutual liking sprang up. I behaved like a sane person not projecting my own schoolday insecurities onto my child’s. I didn’t approach the school run with the expectation of either being greeted like a long-lost relative and carefully included in everything, or, conversely, on my guard against ‘school mums’ and ‘hostile cliques’. I invited kids he liked to our temporary rental (had just moved countries and a purchase had fallen through) without pitching a fit about tidiness or reciprocation. I didn’t expect immediate friendship because the kids became friends, or get upset when they did things without me, and I made other friends elsewhere.

At his previous school, as a foreigner and FT working mother, I was never included by other parents (to the point where I only discovered there had been a class WhatsApp since the beginning of reception midway through Year 2), but no one is obliged to fe more than civil. I invited kids to play dates because DS liked them, not because I liked their parents.

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Bully for you

TheBoldHelper · 17/10/2024 18:08

I don’t feel I’m part of the “in crowd” which consists of a lot of her friends that she plays with everyday in school including her best friend. I’ve really tried and had one or two playdates since reception but majority they seem not to want to meet up as they are busy

I find this concerning. It’s written like it’s you at school and you having the play dates, not your child. These mums know each other from nursery. Avoid the one who bitterly said it was wealth it is unlikely to be and more a longstanding group,

why do you need to be friends with them? Are you lonely? Have you no friends of your own? If so is that as you moved? If so there are ways but acting like a kid and wanting to hang out with the mums who you deem the “in crowd” is not going to do you any favours, it is almost teenage. Take a step back and read it again, and see what you see?

focus on your child. Her friendships, any play dates she wants for herself. Your friendships should be found elsewhere or occur naturally

Thursdaygirl · 17/10/2024 18:09

ChiffandBipper · 17/10/2024 16:58

" the mums don’t wish to be friends with people they consider are not wealthy and don’t live same lifestyle as them."

Rubbish, nobody has said this. 99.99% of people don't care how much money people have... I can't imagine that the 0.01% who care about money are all mums of chuldren in the same class at the same school!

Just arrange a few more play dates, 1-2-1.

This

Thepeopleversuswork · 17/10/2024 18:16

@Bachboo

This comes across as so smug. I wonder if you would feel the same if you were dropped from this group?

But she hasn’t been “dropped”, she just isn’t friends with these people. Why is it smug to be grown up enough to be able to deal with other adults?

Theres a thread about “school mums” being “bitchy” and “cliquey” every week. Every time, without exception, it boils down to the OP misinterpreting stuff basically because she is overinvested.

I have read literally dozens of these threads and every single time when asked to produce evidence for this “bitchiness” it’s basically just that there are friendship groups that the OP isn’t part of. Well, that’s life.

I empathise to the extent that it can be upsetting to feel you’re not part of something. But that happens in all walks of life and situations. Why do people expect loads of friends from the school mum network?

And why do they become suspicious of anyone else who has managed to build friendships without them. It’s childish and self defeating and it also sets a terrible example to your own kids if you have a sulk every time someone fails to smile at you in the playground.

I find it astonishing how many adult women seem to lack the most basic social nous.

Bachboo · 17/10/2024 18:26

Thepeopleversuswork · 17/10/2024 18:16

@Bachboo

This comes across as so smug. I wonder if you would feel the same if you were dropped from this group?

But she hasn’t been “dropped”, she just isn’t friends with these people. Why is it smug to be grown up enough to be able to deal with other adults?

Theres a thread about “school mums” being “bitchy” and “cliquey” every week. Every time, without exception, it boils down to the OP misinterpreting stuff basically because she is overinvested.

I have read literally dozens of these threads and every single time when asked to produce evidence for this “bitchiness” it’s basically just that there are friendship groups that the OP isn’t part of. Well, that’s life.

I empathise to the extent that it can be upsetting to feel you’re not part of something. But that happens in all walks of life and situations. Why do people expect loads of friends from the school mum network?

And why do they become suspicious of anyone else who has managed to build friendships without them. It’s childish and self defeating and it also sets a terrible example to your own kids if you have a sulk every time someone fails to smile at you in the playground.

I find it astonishing how many adult women seem to lack the most basic social nous.

This is your opinion and just because it is your opinion doesn’t mean you are right. I fundamentally disagree on everything you have just said and especially the tone with which you’ve said it.

Completelyjo · 17/10/2024 18:26

Bachboo · 17/10/2024 17:57

This comes across as so smug. I wonder if you would feel the same if you were dropped from this group?

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Having incredibly limited free time and choosing to spend it with people I know and care about is smug?
I mean how so?

DazedAndConfused2024 · 17/10/2024 18:31

With a class of 15, it could well be the school my children attend…
If so, you’ll spot me wearing my big green Schoeffel jacket and not giving a four x while all the gym bunny mums in leggings cluster together like lemmings….
Seriously, though, I do get where you are coming from but, like a lot of the earlier posters on here, suggest you take it all with a pinch of salt
I’ve posted a similar post on here worrying about my son not being invited to play dates/ parties whatever. Not really sure what the answer is but I say hello to everyone and am bright and breezy. It is what it is!!!
x

Bachboo · 17/10/2024 18:33

Completelyjo · 17/10/2024 18:26

Having incredibly limited free time and choosing to spend it with people I know and care about is smug?
I mean how so?

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Everything you said in your post comes across as smug. But imagine what if all these mothers whose children will be attending nursery or school at the same time as yours decide to form a clique and your not included I wonder then if you would feel like the op and be more open to making new friends? Or is it you really want to be the queen b?

Thepeopleversuswork · 17/10/2024 18:33

@Bachboo

I fundamentally disagree on everything you have just said and especially the tone with which you’ve said it.

Fair enough. I cant do much about my tone but it’s driven by asense of exasperation at the fact that women shoot themselves endlessly in the foot by seeing other women’s friendships as “cliques”.

Ireolu · 17/10/2024 18:33

Idontlikeyou · 17/10/2024 15:03

Why would that annoy you?!

I have said to my 5 year old sometimes that I can’t arrange a playdate with child X because I don’t know their mum - meaning I don’t know their parent to be able to ask them and don’t have their phone number etc. It’s hardly a crime.

The way a 7 year old can convey that probably has a very different tone to what was intended. You are inventing a drama where none exists.

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OK you believe whatever you need to.

Will just ignore the fact that a 7 yrnold child is in yr 3 (4th Yr in the school). And I gave personally exchanged messages with said mum...

We need an "ignore user' button on MN

YouOKHun · 17/10/2024 18:37

I would be wary of the person who told you that the group of women prefer to stick to friends of the same wealth level, it says more about the person who told you than it does about the group @iCantStopppEating

I treated the school gates like a job and the people I met like colleagues. I've got two or three fantastic friends from my oldest child's early school years but most other parents were just nodding acquaintances or transient friends who were perfectly nice but we only had school in common. Of the two close friends one didn't have a child in my year, I just got chatting to her.

As others have said, the groups change, people leave, others join, children fall out or become best friends by year 6 with the one child who you never crossed paths with. Some parents have friendships already formed. Some have older or younger children to deal with. Your DD will make friends so don't confuse your feelings of rejection with her ability to make friends.

Get to know the mothers of the boys and children in different years. Get to know other people outside school. Get your DD doing an interest outside school where she can form extra friendships. I do feel for you because stepping into the world of school as a parent can be daunting and we're investing in making school the best possible experience for our children. It also brings up feelings about our own schooldays if they were less than positive. I hated every moment of school so stepping inside one as a parent brought back a lot of memories, none of them good. It's a very subjective exercise.

Your DD sounds like she has got friends to play with at school so that is great. School Christmas activities were always a great plus for mixing parents and children together and its early days in the school year. Don't let that dodgy comment taint your view of other parents.

Calliopespa · 17/10/2024 18:39

TheWayTheLightFalls · 17/10/2024 11:20

Another point is they all knew each from the nursery they attended. My daughter didn’t go same nursery as we lived elsewhere before.

This is much more likely to be the thing than wealth, cliquiness etc. They're all on a random WhatsApp group from nursery, hence the meetups etc. Group of women who know one another =/= clique.

I wouldn't do anything OP. Support DC's friendships as you would anyway, seek friendship for yourself elsewhere. Things may shake out over time.

I agree all this op. Work on organising the social events you feel are useful for your Dc and don’t worry too much about other events. Thankfully your Dc isn’t quite old enough to keep an ear to the ground on it all and is unlikely to suffer too much if you make sure she gets enough fun with them; she doesn’t need you to be with the mums without her.

I suspect they are on each other’s radar from nursery and if your Dc plays with them at school, she will likely get included, especially as they get older and more assertive about who they want to see, not just who their mum picks to have over. Sometimes it’s not unwise to stand a bit aloof; these intense mummy friend dynamics can go very wrong.

Thepeopleversuswork · 17/10/2024 18:41

But imagine what if all these mothers whose children will be attending nursery or school at the same time as yours decide to form a clique and your not included I wonder then if you would feel like the op and be more open to making new friends?

What do you mean by “form a clique”? Don’t you just mean “make friends”? Have you never made a friend? Do you feel obligated to invite everyone you have ever met out on a night out because you’re inviting one person just to avoid forming a “clique”? Of course not. No one would ever make friends like that.

Life just isn’t like that and school is not fundamentally different.

queenMab99 · 17/10/2024 18:41

It all sounds rather shallow and silly, 'girl mums' and ' boy mums' 'wealthy' and 'poor mums' I've never heard such divisive rubbish! I wouldn't want anything to do with any of them, if that's what it's like!

Bachboo · 17/10/2024 18:48

Thepeopleversuswork · 17/10/2024 18:33

@Bachboo

I fundamentally disagree on everything you have just said and especially the tone with which you’ve said it.

Fair enough. I cant do much about my tone but it’s driven by asense of exasperation at the fact that women shoot themselves endlessly in the foot by seeing other women’s friendships as “cliques”.

Because the cliques do exist I’m sorry to say. These types of women either just want to feel superior to other woman as it elevates their sense of self or they are just too scared to be on their own and be seen as unpopular. The school ground mentality amongst some parents is a perfect breeding ground for one to form.