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To think that releasing crickets at a gay rights conference, specifically to shut them down, should be considered a homophobic hate crime? Somehow these people are crowdfunding to do it AGAIN

1000 replies

Zahariel · 17/10/2024 09:03

The optics of having to fumigate a hall after gay people used it to speak about their rights being eroded should not be lost on anyone.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13950839/Trans-activists-release-bags-insects-LGB-Alliance-conference.html

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/suspected-trans-rights-activists-disrupt-lgba-conference-with-live-crickets/ar-AA1s9JHH

This is CLERLY A HATE CRIME - yet it's being reported as trans rights activists, not anti gay hate mongers, I can't really understand why not

MSN

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/suspected-trans-rights-activists-disrupt-lgba-conference-with-live-crickets/ar-AA1s9JHH

OP posts:
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27
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/10/2024 17:55

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 17:54

If you seriously believe that it is compatible with the safety and dignity of a trans woman to be forced to enter male facilities then you are completely out of touch with reality.
it is not a position worthy of any respect .

So why do you think women aren't entitled to the same respect for their safety and dignity?

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 17:56

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/10/2024 17:52

We don't think that. You apparently do though, so perhaps you can explain why.

Not going to waste my time on this nonsense. How about you spend 5 minutes talking to a trans person and practice exercising a modicum of perspective- taking , imagination and empathy.

ArcheryAnnie · 18/10/2024 17:56

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 17:47

Of course it’s not compatible with the dignity and safety of trans women to require them to use the men’s toilets.

Utterly ridiculous.

There's no evidence that transwomen's safety is compromised by using the loos of their correct sex.

If you think their dignity is compromised by using the correct-sex loo, then why not just have "all gender" loos as well as women-only ones, then? What's the issue there?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/10/2024 17:57

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 17:56

Not going to waste my time on this nonsense. How about you spend 5 minutes talking to a trans person and practice exercising a modicum of perspective- taking , imagination and empathy.

Do you have any examples of trans women coming to harm in men's toilets?

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 17:57

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/10/2024 17:55

So why do you think women aren't entitled to the same respect for their safety and dignity?

Both women and trans people are entitled to the same respect.

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 17:57

ArcheryAnnie · 18/10/2024 17:56

There's no evidence that transwomen's safety is compromised by using the loos of their correct sex.

If you think their dignity is compromised by using the correct-sex loo, then why not just have "all gender" loos as well as women-only ones, then? What's the issue there?

Not worthy of respect.

Helleofabore · 18/10/2024 17:59

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 17:46

No idea what any of this means.

Pronouns are simply words we use to describe people or address them.

As with all words to describe or address people, you do so in a manner that is compatible with the dignity and respect of that person.

Obviously if someone has raped you, you don’t really have to worry about being respectful , you can be as rude as you choose.

That’s all.

What it shows is that it is yet another instance when a male person who believes they are in anyway a 'woman' is to be treated as their correct sex.

As the exceptions grow, the question must be asked? If these particular male people are not 'women', why are any male people being treated as if their philosophical belief has greater priority over a female person's sex?

Surely the logic is crumbling away, bit by bit. It also again shows that there is harm in these additional privileges being demanded.

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 17:59

If you think their dignity is compromised by using the correct-sex loo, then why not just have "all gender" loos as well as women-only ones, then? What's the issue there?

I don’t want to use an “all-gender” loo. Why should I be forced to go to the toilet with men just because you are transphobic? Let’s have two sets of women, like I suggested: one for the gender police, the other for trans inclusive women.

DustyAmuseAlien · 18/10/2024 18:01

Either all facilities need to be mixed sex, or segregation needs to be based on sex not gender because if you base it on gender that effectively means that both types are open to anyone, therefore they are mixed sex anyway.

If they are goong to be mixed sex it's better for that to be openly declared and for safety measures and physical design to be carefully planned to take into account that it is a mixed sex facility. Rebranding a formerly-single-sex facility as now mixed sex is unlikely to be sensible as it will have been designed on the assumption that it is single sex. It needs a full redesign.

In most contexts there's nothing wrong with an organisation ripping out the previously single-sex arrangements (row of cubicles with gaps above and below doors for women, row of open urinals with one cubicle for men) and replacing with well-designed open-to-all facilities (single occupier rooms with no peephole gaps and a sink in the room). There are some contexts where this is inappropriate (where it's likely that people will use the privacy of a single occupier room for sexual abuse, bullying or drug offences) so not evey place can do this.

It is absolutely not reasonable for open-gap cubicle arrangements to be mixed sex as the only option. It's fine for there to be some mens, some womens and some mixed sex for the use of anyone who doesn't want to use the facilities for their biological sex.

Helleofabore · 18/10/2024 18:02

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 17:56

Not going to waste my time on this nonsense. How about you spend 5 minutes talking to a trans person and practice exercising a modicum of perspective- taking , imagination and empathy.

I talk to trans people. I know others on this thread do too. How very strange that you think that people on this thread don't talk to trans people?

You must be very entrenched to think that all trans people agree with you and that you are doing a good job representing their interests on this thread.

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 18:02

Helleofabore · 18/10/2024 17:59

What it shows is that it is yet another instance when a male person who believes they are in anyway a 'woman' is to be treated as their correct sex.

As the exceptions grow, the question must be asked? If these particular male people are not 'women', why are any male people being treated as if their philosophical belief has greater priority over a female person's sex?

Surely the logic is crumbling away, bit by bit. It also again shows that there is harm in these additional privileges being demanded.

If these particular male people are not 'women'

You really are tying yourself in a knot about words for no reason. Words are just that - words. when we use words to address and describe someone, we do so with respect. That’s all.

SinnerBoy · 18/10/2024 18:03

PiggleToes · Today 17:54

If you seriously believe that it is compatible with the safety and dignity of a trans woman to be forced to enter male facilities then you are completely out of touch with reality.

They can use the unisex ones. If they use the men's ang possibly get a bit of side eye, is scarcely the same as a woman being raped in the ladies, is it?

What about the safety and dignity of women, who for cultural / religious reasons cannot share a space with a man who is not their close relative? Or women with a crippling fear of men and PTSD because they've suffered assaults at the hands of a man / me?

Fuck 'em, eh? Is that your answer?

it is not a position worthy of any respect .

Of course it is.

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 18:03

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 18:05

SinnerBoy · 18/10/2024 18:03

PiggleToes · Today 17:54

If you seriously believe that it is compatible with the safety and dignity of a trans woman to be forced to enter male facilities then you are completely out of touch with reality.

They can use the unisex ones. If they use the men's ang possibly get a bit of side eye, is scarcely the same as a woman being raped in the ladies, is it?

What about the safety and dignity of women, who for cultural / religious reasons cannot share a space with a man who is not their close relative? Or women with a crippling fear of men and PTSD because they've suffered assaults at the hands of a man / me?

Fuck 'em, eh? Is that your answer?

it is not a position worthy of any respect .

Of course it is.

Fuck 'em, eh? Is that your answer?

my answer was two sets of women’s facilities. How can you possibly be objecting to that? If it’s not just to punish trans people for no teason?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/10/2024 18:05

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 17:57

Both women and trans people are entitled to the same respect.

So women have an equal right not to share toilets and changing rooms with male people and everyone should respect that, right?

SinnerBoy · 18/10/2024 18:05

There's no record, or other evidence of transw being assaulted in men's toilets. Your premise is false.

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 18:05

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/10/2024 18:05

So women have an equal right not to share toilets and changing rooms with male people and everyone should respect that, right?

Read the thread

Helleofabore · 18/10/2024 18:06

Can we start getting those who have the opinion that male people should have access to female single sex spaces to start to put some numbers to their opinions? To quantify just how many female people they consider acceptable collateral to experience harm before they start supporting female single sex spaces.

I don't think unisex toilets are an adequate solution as per my posts above.

How many women or girls harmed is acceptable to allow a sub-set of male people to have access to female single sex spaces knowing that those male people have at least the same degree of risk of committing a sex offense as all the other male people in the UK?

And for the record, there has already been more than 1. Many more harmed. Particularly when you consider those who now exclude themselves from services and public life because they do not have single sex spaces available to them.

Would those dismissing the need for single sex spaces like to finally offer a number? or will it just be another n+1 exercise?

In the years of asking this question, I have seen two answers. One poster decreed 31 female people to be acceptable to be harmed. One male poster declared that over 100 each year was acceptable in his eyes to be harmed before he would accept that female people might have a case to argue that female single sex spaces are restored.

Anyone on this thread want to quantify the acceptable damage that their inaction or their active support of male people accessing female single sex spaces needs to have before they change their mind?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/10/2024 18:06

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 18:05

Fuck 'em, eh? Is that your answer?

my answer was two sets of women’s facilities. How can you possibly be objecting to that? If it’s not just to punish trans people for no teason?

And my answer was that as long as you are repurposing men's facilities for this, fine. You shouldn't be taking facilities away from women for this purpose because we are already under catered for.

SinnerBoy · 18/10/2024 18:06

PiggleToes · Today 18:05

my answer was two sets of women’s facilities.

Oh, my mistake; fair enough, as long as the transw use the unisex facilities and stay out of the wrong ones for them.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/10/2024 18:07

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

But you want to make women's facilities inclusive of male people and force women to use them.

If a trans woman is in a women's space it is by definition no longer a single sex space. You get that, right? Their presence makes a women's space a unisex space so why can't they just use spaces which are already unisex?

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 18/10/2024 18:07

SinnerBoy · 18/10/2024 18:05

There's no record, or other evidence of transw being assaulted in men's toilets. Your premise is false.

Exactly. They are no less safe in the male toilets. There's absolutely no stats or evidence to back it up that 'their safety and dignity is compromised'.

The ones arguing to push boundaries by wanting to use the women's are the ones you definitely don't want in there.

ArcheryAnnie · 18/10/2024 18:08

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 17:57

Not worthy of respect.

Why not? Other trans activists and allys push the "all gender" loo solution - why isn't it good enough for you?

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 18:08

SinnerBoy · 18/10/2024 18:06

PiggleToes · Today 18:05

my answer was two sets of women’s facilities.

Oh, my mistake; fair enough, as long as the transw use the unisex facilities and stay out of the wrong ones for them.

No there are no unisex ones .

two sets of women. One trans exclusionary ; one inclusive,

Helleofabore · 18/10/2024 18:09

In fact, while we are on safety.

Can those declaring that male people should have access to female single sex spaces please link us to the evidence where a male at any stage of transition has less risk of committing a sexual offence than any other male person in the UK?

Then, can you please link us to the evidence where a male at any stage of transition has less or the same risk of committing a sexual offence as any female person in the UK?

Because it seems to me that some posters have some special knowledge that male people with a transgender identity should be exempt from the usual safeguarding measures. So much so, that they should be treated as a special sub group.

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