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To think that releasing crickets at a gay rights conference, specifically to shut them down, should be considered a homophobic hate crime? Somehow these people are crowdfunding to do it AGAIN

1000 replies

Zahariel · 17/10/2024 09:03

The optics of having to fumigate a hall after gay people used it to speak about their rights being eroded should not be lost on anyone.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13950839/Trans-activists-release-bags-insects-LGB-Alliance-conference.html

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/suspected-trans-rights-activists-disrupt-lgba-conference-with-live-crickets/ar-AA1s9JHH

This is CLERLY A HATE CRIME - yet it's being reported as trans rights activists, not anti gay hate mongers, I can't really understand why not

MSN

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/suspected-trans-rights-activists-disrupt-lgba-conference-with-live-crickets/ar-AA1s9JHH

OP posts:
Thread gallery
27
MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/10/2024 15:09

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 18/10/2024 15:04

Isn’t it. I had someone tell me that if a trans woman commits a crime then they’re not a ‘proper’ trans person. Make it make sense.

Isn't that slightly inconsistent with the fact that we have trans women in women's prisons?

I mean, yes, it's absolute fucking nonsense that we are supposed to assume a trans person is genuine and harmless until they're convicted of a serious crime, at which point we rewrite history and say they were never trans in the first place and just pretending.

But then:

  1. Before someone has been convicted of a serious crime, how can we tell whether they are really trans or just pretending and take sensible steps to protect ourselves?
  2. Why have they not housed all men convicted of serious crimes who claim to be trans women in men's prisons on the grounds that they are not really trans and just trying it on?
InvisibleBuffy · 18/10/2024 15:10

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 15:04

You can tell whether someone is male or female whilst they are fully clothed.

That’s fine then. We will have women’s toilets (where we don’t police genitals or presentation), men’s toilets (where we don’t police genitals or presentation), and toilets for females where we judge your gender presentation at the door and if you look “male” we kick you out,

Then we can all decide where to go to the toilet in peace.

Edited

How about we just ask male people no matter how they identify, to respect women's privacy and stay out of women's toilets?
But, of course, its always women who are expected to 'show respect'. Never any respect going the other way.

nutmeg7 · 18/10/2024 15:10

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 15:04

You can tell whether someone is male or female whilst they are fully clothed.

That’s fine then. We will have women’s toilets (where we don’t police genitals or presentation), men’s toilets (where we don’t police genitals or presentation), and toilets for females where we judge your gender presentation at the door and if you look “male” we kick you out,

Then we can all decide where to go to the toilet in peace.

Edited

It is NOT about gender presentation but real, physical, male bodied people.

Can you not tell male from female 99% of the time? We are mammals ffs, we are very good at it. It is nothing to do with “gender presentation” whatever that mean. Presumably clothes and hairstyle???? Is that what you really think women are noticing when they realise someone is a man?

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 15:10

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/10/2024 15:06

Why can't we have toilets for male people, toilets for female people, and toilets for people who don't want to use the toilets for members of their own biological sex?

Or are you suggesting that we can't trust trans people to respect that rule?

No im suggesting that would compromise the dignity and safety of trans people and contribute to outing and othering them: which is the last thing trans people need. Furthermore there are plenty of women like me who have no problem pee’ing with a trans person, but who really don’t want our gender presentation policed and judged at the door. So if that’s what you want, I respectfully suggest the third space should be for you and others who subscribe to this kind of thing..

Raspberryripple11 · 18/10/2024 15:10

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/10/2024 13:06

If your belief is that a woman is something a male person can identify as, you are (a) redefining half the human population as something they may not agree that they are, just so that you can be included, and (b) denying half the human population of a word or identity for themselves that doesn't include you.

That's inherently misogynistic, especially if you then wang on about cis women having cis privilege, thereby reframing female people as privileged/oppressors and male people as disadvantaged/oppressed (a spectacular re-writing of everything we know about how women have been treated by men throughout human history), and take the view that the rights of male "women" trump the rights of female women.

And if you say that a male person can be a lesbian, you are depriving actual lesbians of a word for their own sexuality and the ability to say, "I am exclusively sexually attracted to people who do not have, and have never had, a penis". How is that not homophobic?

It's natural that as language changes, descriptors change. You're still a woman (trans people don't change that), if you want a descriptor that excludes trans women you could use female or cis woman. Just like how gay people may now identify as queer, where it was an insult in the past. Or how retarded was previously a medical word, but is now an insult.
Privilege is not black and white, everyone has a different levels of it based on many factors. Having cis privilege does not take away the disadvantage of being a woman. The rights of trans women does not trump the rights of cis women. Many trans women have actually spoken about how transitioning has made them much more aware of the privilege they had as a man. When they transition they do not lose the privilege they previously had (for example they may still have the education and career privileges), but they are likely to experience new disadvantages as the result of their transition.
Lesbians are still lesbians. Being lesbian does not mean you're attracted to every single woman in the entire world. All of the lesbians I know, having personally suffered discrimination as the result of their sexuality, express empathy towards trans people who are likely going through similar experiences.

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 15:11

nutmeg7 · 18/10/2024 15:10

It is NOT about gender presentation but real, physical, male bodied people.

Can you not tell male from female 99% of the time? We are mammals ffs, we are very good at it. It is nothing to do with “gender presentation” whatever that mean. Presumably clothes and hairstyle???? Is that what you really think women are noticing when they realise someone is a man?

It is NOT about gender presentation but real, physical, male bodied people

however you do it, no problem, go about it.

Just not in my toilets please.,

spannasaurus · 18/10/2024 15:12

@Raspberryripple11 when you conduct research do you record the sex of the participants or their gender?

SallyForf · 18/10/2024 15:13

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 14:49

It’s simple. You are required to treat people with dignity and respect, expect if they criminally violate you, in which case I don’t think anyone would demand that of you . None of this is specific in any way to trans issues.

Amazingly telling typo here, I mean, Freud would have a field day with 'expect'ing transpeople to 'criminally violate you'.

KTheGrey · 18/10/2024 15:15

Zahariel · 17/10/2024 16:10

This crowdfunder is still up

https://chuffed.org/project/115124-supporting-the-crick-kids

Raising £7,000 so far in order to literally do more hate crimes. It's in the description.

So that is interesting - the same campaign was taken down from GoFundMe because it was reported to them for likely being designed to profit from crime and/or to pay for more crime. Apparently chuffed doesn’t mind the risk.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/10/2024 15:16

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 15:10

No im suggesting that would compromise the dignity and safety of trans people and contribute to outing and othering them: which is the last thing trans people need. Furthermore there are plenty of women like me who have no problem pee’ing with a trans person, but who really don’t want our gender presentation policed and judged at the door. So if that’s what you want, I respectfully suggest the third space should be for you and others who subscribe to this kind of thing..

Right, but not everything is about trans people. They have to accept some form of compromise. Not forcing trans women to use men's spaces is society's compromise. Using third spaces is trans people's compromise. Forcing women to accept trans women in our spaces is unacceptable because it doesn't respect the safety and dignity of women. You know, the boring kind, with wombs (© Ricky Gervais) as opposed to the special, more important kind, with penises.

If you particularly want to strip off next to a trans woman then fill your boots. You go right ahead and use that third space along with them, in solidarity. But you absolutely do not get to consent to the loss of our single sex spaces on behalf of other women. Who do you think you are?

Snowypeaks · 18/10/2024 15:16

Raspberryripple11

I'd be interested to know...

What is it that makes women different from males who claim to be women - from a clinical research point of view - in other words, why are you separating women out?

So all the women in your studies embrace feminine gender stereotypes? Is this important for your research?

A big thing I'm trying to encourage is for both male and female mice to be used, most people just use male and end it there.
How can we tell which are which, and does the same method of distinguishing between them apply to human subjects?

Why does it matter if only male mice are used? Could you not just re-label the cages "female"?

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 15:16

SallyForf · 18/10/2024 15:13

Amazingly telling typo here, I mean, Freud would have a field day with 'expect'ing transpeople to 'criminally violate you'.

Oh haha. Btw I’m dyslexic so a more mundane explanation for the typo I’m afraid.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/10/2024 15:18

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 15:11

It is NOT about gender presentation but real, physical, male bodied people

however you do it, no problem, go about it.

Just not in my toilets please.,

Agreed. No male people in our toilets, regardless of their gender presentation.

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 15:19

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/10/2024 15:16

Right, but not everything is about trans people. They have to accept some form of compromise. Not forcing trans women to use men's spaces is society's compromise. Using third spaces is trans people's compromise. Forcing women to accept trans women in our spaces is unacceptable because it doesn't respect the safety and dignity of women. You know, the boring kind, with wombs (© Ricky Gervais) as opposed to the special, more important kind, with penises.

If you particularly want to strip off next to a trans woman then fill your boots. You go right ahead and use that third space along with them, in solidarity. But you absolutely do not get to consent to the loss of our single sex spaces on behalf of other women. Who do you think you are?

Right, but not everything is about trans people. They have to accept some form of compromise

So unbelievably, disgustingly transphobic 😡.

Trans people’s right to have a safe place to piss is every single bit as important as yours.

honestly it’s statements like this that do give people the utter, legitimate rage.

who the hell do you think you are? I’m happy with the toilets as they are, sharing them with trans women as I always have.

Raspberryripple11 · 18/10/2024 15:20

RedToothBrush · 18/10/2024 14:59

Haha well it wasn't as if I expected you to actually engage with the point.

Speaking of which can you engage with the point about when it is the appropriate time to 'de-pronoun' a trans identifying male accused of raped as per my previous point.

At arrest? Once a case goes to the CPS and is approved for trial? At the trial itself? And what happens in the event of being found not guilty? Do you flog yourself as a form of punishment if you 'de-pronouned' too early?

You are very good at failing to engage with points you don't like.

Or we could say that the crime has nothing to do with being transgender?
Treat them as a criminal yes, but I don't see why the pronouns have to come into it. If a cis woman sexually assaults someone do you denounce that they must be male because no woman could ever do that.
Of course, when it comes to prisons if a prisoner is deemed a danger to other prisoners then they should be housed and supervised accordingly. But if a cis woman murdered a bunch of other women would you put them in a male prison to protect the female inmates?
By repeatedly bringing up prisons and criminality as an excuse for not respecting pronouns you are being transphobic.

SinnerBoy · 18/10/2024 15:20

Third spaces for gender critical women is my preferred approach

Hmm, so to begin with, 80% of women will use the GC toilets, no transw in there. Over time, the duped women, after sharing the unisex toilets, will migrate to the GC toilets. Eventually, the unisex toilets will contain virtually no women and the GC toilets will be single sex.

Not a bad idea.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/10/2024 15:21

Raspberryripple11 · 18/10/2024 15:10

It's natural that as language changes, descriptors change. You're still a woman (trans people don't change that), if you want a descriptor that excludes trans women you could use female or cis woman. Just like how gay people may now identify as queer, where it was an insult in the past. Or how retarded was previously a medical word, but is now an insult.
Privilege is not black and white, everyone has a different levels of it based on many factors. Having cis privilege does not take away the disadvantage of being a woman. The rights of trans women does not trump the rights of cis women. Many trans women have actually spoken about how transitioning has made them much more aware of the privilege they had as a man. When they transition they do not lose the privilege they previously had (for example they may still have the education and career privileges), but they are likely to experience new disadvantages as the result of their transition.
Lesbians are still lesbians. Being lesbian does not mean you're attracted to every single woman in the entire world. All of the lesbians I know, having personally suffered discrimination as the result of their sexuality, express empathy towards trans people who are likely going through similar experiences.

This isn't the natural evolution of language, this is 1984 style linguistic oppression. The meaning of the words "woman" and "lesbian" hasn't changed. Those words have been forcibly appropriated by the TQ+ lobby, precisely to deny actual women and lesbians the ability to describe and discuss themselves.

Oh and by the way, if you can escape oppression and regain male privilege just by putting on some trousers and going back to using he/him pronouns, YOU ARE NOT OPPRESSED. This is so offensive to women worldwide who are oppressed because of their sex, an unchangeable, unavoidable fact, not because of how they choose to identify.

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 15:22

SinnerBoy · 18/10/2024 15:20

Third spaces for gender critical women is my preferred approach

Hmm, so to begin with, 80% of women will use the GC toilets, no transw in there. Over time, the duped women, after sharing the unisex toilets, will migrate to the GC toilets. Eventually, the unisex toilets will contain virtually no women and the GC toilets will be single sex.

Not a bad idea.

Sure let’s trial it and see if that’s how it goes.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/10/2024 15:25

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 15:22

Sure let’s trial it and see if that’s how it goes.

I can tell you how it goes. About five minutes after this experiment starts, all women barring the occasional ally with a pronoun badge are using the gender critical penis free toilets, and five minutes after that trans women start moaning that the only other women in the women's toilets are other trans women, and about five minutes after that the trans women start identifying as cisgendered gender critical women and invading the penis free spaces, with the exception of India Willoughby who did this in the first minute.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 18/10/2024 15:25

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 15:19

Right, but not everything is about trans people. They have to accept some form of compromise

So unbelievably, disgustingly transphobic 😡.

Trans people’s right to have a safe place to piss is every single bit as important as yours.

honestly it’s statements like this that do give people the utter, legitimate rage.

who the hell do you think you are? I’m happy with the toilets as they are, sharing them with trans women as I always have.

Edited

YOU don’t get to give away the rights of women who aren’t happy sharing their toilets, spaces, whatever, with biological males. What’s so difficult to understand about that?

If trans women don’t feel safe in the males take it up with them (and the irony of this will be so lost on you).

There was nothing transphobic about that statement btw.

spannasaurus · 18/10/2024 15:26

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 18/10/2024 15:25

I can tell you how it goes. About five minutes after this experiment starts, all women barring the occasional ally with a pronoun badge are using the gender critical penis free toilets, and five minutes after that trans women start moaning that the only other women in the women's toilets are other trans women, and about five minutes after that the trans women start identifying as cisgendered gender critical women and invading the penis free spaces, with the exception of India Willoughby who did this in the first minute.

This

Raspberryripple11 · 18/10/2024 15:27

spannasaurus · 18/10/2024 15:12

@Raspberryripple11 when you conduct research do you record the sex of the participants or their gender?

The standard procedure would be asking the gender, and then a second question "is your gender the same as you were assigned at birth?". Generally though in large cohort studies the number of trans people would be so small it wouldn't make a difference to the overall data patterns.

nothingcomestonothing · 18/10/2024 15:27

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 15:19

Right, but not everything is about trans people. They have to accept some form of compromise

So unbelievably, disgustingly transphobic 😡.

Trans people’s right to have a safe place to piss is every single bit as important as yours.

honestly it’s statements like this that do give people the utter, legitimate rage.

who the hell do you think you are? I’m happy with the toilets as they are, sharing them with trans women as I always have.

Edited

It's 'disgustingly transphobic' to expect transpeople to accept some form of compromise.

Blimey, saying the quiet part out loud there.

PiggleToes · 18/10/2024 15:28

Right, but not everything is about trans people. They have to accept some form of compromise

im out because this made me too angry.

I’ll leave you all with a perfectly simple solution. I’ll even call the toilets you want option a! How about that.

toilets a) women (gender critical definition - natal females)

toilets b) women (trans inclusive definition)

toilets c) men.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 18/10/2024 15:28

Who on earth is assigned a gender at birth.

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