To think that releasing crickets at a gay rights conference, specifically to shut them down, should be considered a homophobic hate crime? Somehow these people are crowdfunding to do it AGAIN

[Zahariel]

The optics of having to fumigate a hall after gay people used it to speak about their rights being eroded should not be lost on anyone.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13950839/Trans-activists-release-bags-insects-LGB-Alliance-conference.html

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/suspected-trans-rights-activists-disrupt-lgba-conference-with-live-crickets/ar-AA1s9JHH

This is CLERLY A HATE CRIME - yet it's being reported as trans rights activists, not anti gay hate mongers, I can't really understand why not

obviously not.

I am saying that just because trans people can be part of the LGBA doesn’t mean it’s not a transphobic organisation.

Gay people can join the catholic chirch, doesn’t mean it’s not homophobic as an institution.

Women can be part of ISIS, it’s still a profoundly misogynistic organisation that is fundamentally antithetical to the rights of women.

Racial minorities can join the BNP. Thats a better example since it’s the kind of argument they use - look we aren’t racist, we include racial minorities in our party!

Thank you for clarifying your position piggle

Behold - what @PiggleToes actually thinks of people they don't agree with, they must be terrorists or, (inferred from the way they presents the name), a terrible brain washed fool

So would you agree then that just because some LGB people might also be trans activists it doesn't mean that trans activists aren't homophobic

Because I only see your username on trans related threads. There are so many threads relevant to feminism- most on mumsnet in fact since this is a board where women post about dilemmas and challenges in their lives. So many about how women are treated in the family courts for example.
You are nowhere to be seen on those, but you appear on every single related threads, promoting anti trans ideas, theories, sentiments… I’m just wondering why?

How are you defining transphobic?

Point me to the legal ruling which said that believing and following the doctrine of ISIS is deemed worthy of respect in a democratic society.

Thanks.

Anyone who does not agree with @PiggleToes clearly.

The wrong type of gay

the wrong type of woman

probably the wrong type of trans given the people talking at the LGBAlliance conference

Yes.

PiggleToes · Today 13:31

what do you mean by “trans ideology”? The idea that trans people exist and should be respected and included in society?

No, don't be silly.

It's the pushing of the narrative that everyone has a gender identity and that everybody must accept and believe that. Pursuant to that, that TWAW, actually women and MUST be included in and all women's spaces, events and women's only categories, including awards, sports, toilets, prisons etc. That anyone who does not accept that is a monstrous bigot beyond the Pale, who deserves to be shunned by all decent members of society.

Ah good. We agree that TRAs are homophobic and this was a homophobic attack.

I can respect the dignity and value of a person without signing up to agree, falsely, that somebody is the sex that they are not.

Yep.

The KGB Alliance (sic) are terrorists.

Totally getting the message here of abject nonsense which doesn't reflect the law.

Fear, hatred prejudice directed towards trans people; Ideas that trans experience is fundamentally illegitimate, threatening and wrong; idea that trans people should be denied basic rights and services (eg appropriate healthcare).

So it's NOT transphobic to refuse to use someones pronouns?

Not transphobic to say people cannot pick their own treatment whatever a doctor says?

Not transphobic to say males should not be in female sport?

Not transphobic to say males should not be in female changing spaces?

In order to respect the dignity and value of a trans person, you have to respect that trans experience is real, legitimate and ok; that it’s not something that is fundamentally wrong, harmful, predatory- or that needs to be silenced and repressed.

Where has anybody on this thread, or any other on Mumsnet, called for trans-identified people to be denied basic rights and services, @PiggleToes ?

And not one of us is asking for any of that

@PiggleToes answer the questions.

No it wasn’t homophobic attack.

Maybe some trans rights activists are homophobic, I wouldn’t know the beliefs of every single one.

But supporting trans people and their rights is not intrinsically homophobic. The idea that it is homophobic, is itself a form of transphobia.

You absolutely are.

Do you think that in order to respect the dignity and value of creationists, we all have to sign up to believing and acting as if the earth was 6,000 years old? Do we need to sack all the palaeontologists, re-educate all the geologists?

There's a whole thread in FWR this week where the majority of posters are in agreement with and in fact vehemently arguing for Kellie-Jay Keen's position that employers and landlords should be able to legally discriminate against people due to their trans status.

No. One. Wants. To. Deny. Healthcare.

We want ethical health care.

It is not ethical to transition a child without robust safeguarding and making sure they are not gay, autistic, or otherwise vulnerable. Even then it's still arguably not ethical to transition when so young because of our understanding of how identity forms and when. Never mind the consent related issues.

It's also not ethical to carry out treatment with exceptionally high complication rates, in the absence of evidence that it is effective and the risk of detransition is too high.

Ensuring good and equal health care for trans people INCLUDES an acknowledgement of sex because of the numbers of scenarios where failing to recognise sex could cause actual harm.

Then there's the cosmetic aspects. For fair access to cosmetic procedures we need to understand what is the base line. The base line is that the NHS does not provide cosmetic care universally. It is done by need in clinical terms.

If you can't PROVE a clinical benefit then you can't ethically approve a cosmetic procedure. Particularly on the NHS. Cos that's how the NHS works.

I feel like this fits here.

TRAs don't want respect, respect allows for difference - I can respect others beliefs without sharing them. TRAs want compliance with their worldviews and punishment for those who don't believe what they believe. Hence the subject of this thread.