To think that releasing crickets at a gay rights conference, specifically to shut them down, should be considered a homophobic hate crime? Somehow these people are crowdfunding to do it AGAIN

[Zahariel]

The optics of having to fumigate a hall after gay people used it to speak about their rights being eroded should not be lost on anyone.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13950839/Trans-activists-release-bags-insects-LGB-Alliance-conference.html

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/suspected-trans-rights-activists-disrupt-lgba-conference-with-live-crickets/ar-AA1s9JHH

This is CLERLY A HATE CRIME - yet it's being reported as trans rights activists, not anti gay hate mongers, I can't really understand why not

If your belief is that a woman is something a male person can identify as, you are (a) redefining half the human population as something they may not agree that they are, just so that you can be included, and (b) denying half the human population of a word or identity for themselves that doesn't include you.

That's inherently misogynistic, especially if you then wang on about cis women having cis privilege, thereby reframing female people as privileged/oppressors and male people as disadvantaged/oppressed (a spectacular re-writing of everything we know about how women have been treated by men throughout human history), and take the view that the rights of male "women" trump the rights of female women.

And if you say that a male person can be a lesbian, you are depriving actual lesbians of a word for their own sexuality and the ability to say, "I am exclusively sexually attracted to people who do not have, and have never had, a penis". How is that not homophobic?

It is not misogynistic or homophobic to demand that everyone respects the inherent dignity and value of every human person , even the trans ones.

Of course it has everything to do with stereotypes. If you remove "being female" from your definition of womanhood, there is nothing left, and nothing you can replace it with other than stereotypes.

It is all stereotypes. Can you name a single characteristic that makes a male person a woman that isn't a stereotype?
And an actual characteristic, not a vague feeling. Women aren't feelings. As mentioned, we are people.

It is hugely misogynistic to demand that women accept trans women as women, thereby denying their right to say that they do not share any kind of identity with trans women and that they want and need a word for themselves as well as single sex spaces and sports.

And it is massively homophobic to demand that lesbians accept male people as lesbians and potential sexual partners.

Respecting the gender and sexual identity of another person does not require you identify with them, nor does it require you to sleep with them.

You may have to share some public spaces with them , as we all sometimes have to share spaces with other people we don’t necessarily want to be there. That’s the nature of public space.

There is nothing misogynistic and homophobic about respecting trans people and including them in society.

It's not.

But then respecting the dignity of EVERYONE includes respecting that women find it offensive that they are DEMANDED to ignore their own life experience and pander to a fantasy, which still doesn't exist. That's not about dignity. That's about power and control and expecting others to be support humans and neglect their own best interests.

And yes you can have the circular argument about gender and stereotyping is you want, but honestly without a definition that's quantifiable in terms of what a woman is in law, then yes dismissing the impact of biological terms and expecting everyone to accept a wooly concept thats in the heads of other people and repeatedly is biased in how it favours men to the detriment of women (INCLUDING when it comes to female transitioners) then frankly it's just a load of cobblers that IS based on sexist ideas of woman...

I'm happy to share any public space with trans women except public spaces which are supposed to be single sex, for female users only.

"Respecting" their gender identity requires me to refer to them as women, which I am unwilling to do (I don't even like the term "trans women" if I am honest, because they are not any kind of women) because it would mean pretending I agree that a male person can be a woman. I don't. I believe female people need and deserve and have the right to have a word for themselves which does not include any male people, however those male people believe they identify or however sad it makes them not to be included. And we have a word for that. The word for an adult female human is "woman". It's not available for use by male people, and they should never have appropriated it without our consent.

If they were to come up with a different word for whatever it is they believe they are identifying as (i.e. not "women") then I would happily respect that and use that word about them, and even support any campaign for their own spaces and sports on the basis of that identity if they felt they needed them.

But I will not respect anyone's identity if it comes at the expense of my own, which male people identifying as women does.

You can be included. This doesn't require others to call you by certain pronouns though. That's power and control and a demonstration of it.

They can be included in society, they can't be included in womanhood if they are male.

Inclusion could mean enabling transwomen to use male facilities without fear.

Except that's not the line that's being taken for some reason.

No it is not.

but it is homophobic to say that same sex attracted people should be attracted to the opposite sex

but it is misogynistic to say a man can assume being a women with all the stifles that come with it

it is authoritarian to try and compel other people to use speech you think they should.

trans ideology is homophobic, misogynistic and authoritarian. And we don’t like it.

I haven’t seen it

As PP have said trans people can be part of LGBA and indeed some trans people have attended LGBA events. The speaker who was interrupted is married to a transman. So not trans exclusionary.
They were attacked because they believe in same SEX attraction not same gender attraction. LGBA believe that lesbians who do not want to include men in their dating pool are not transphobic the attackers think they are.

In my work I research women’s health (a historically under-researched area) and advocate for equal opportunities for women within the profession.

Out of interest, how does that work if you think some males are women?

trans ideology is homophobic, misogynistic and authoritarian. And we don’t like it.

what do you mean by “trans ideology”? The idea that trans people exist and should be respected and included in society?

it is authoritarian to try and compel other people to use speech you think they should.

I think the idea that you shouldn’t use language that is hurtful and degrading to other people , or discriminatory towards particular social groups, is fairly widespread and commonplace.

As PP have said trans people can be part of LGBA and indeed some trans people have attended LGBA events.

yeh, like gay people can be part of the Catholic Church, and women can be part of ISIS.

Indeed it must be terribly confusing! If the line is a man is a woman cos he says so then researching health problems in women by using a male body must be eye wateringly difficult.

i wonder if vets research issues that affect cats by researching frogs? Or would they see that that would be inherently fucking pointless? A bit like trying to research women’s health problems by using TW

Are you actually comparing any trans people at a LGB meeting to ISIS😳

Trans ideology is the idea that we all have gender identities which may or may not match our sex and that it is your gender identity and not your sex which makes you a man or a woman. Obviously this is nonsense.

I find it degrading when male people refer to themselves as women, or when the media does it, but nobody cares about how I feel, probably because I actually am a woman!

Wait…that shouldn’t have been a question

you are absolutely doing that

You know piggle you’re really not helping trans ppl with the utter nonsense you spout. The more you say, the more you highlight the utter vacuum at the heart of TRA ideology

are you sure you’re not actually a fifth columnist??

I post on feminist threads. What of it? Why is it relevant to you at all?

I think the idea that you shouldn’t use language that is hurtful and degrading to other people is fairly widespread and commonplace.

I find it hurtful and degrading when men use the words woman or female to describe themselves or when others use female pronouns for such a person.

Appropriating womanhood, especially when there is an expectation that in doing so you expect women to allow you enter single sex spaces is beyond hurtful. It's spiteful, bullying behaviour that demonstrates a lack of empathy/understanding/respect for the sex you claim to be.

You ignore the points you don't like and cherry pick badly the others.

Trans ideology - the idea that humans can change sex and that that must be acknowledged as fact, forcing pronouns, forcing people to not say a man in a dress is a man, forcing gay people to sleep with the opposite sex, encouraging children to be chemically castrated and mutilated, the one that encourages men with erections into my daughters changing room and sports team - that trans ideology

"I think the idea that you shouldn’t use language that is hurtful and degrading to other people is fairly widespread and commonplace."

No it is not. YOU think it's hurtful and degrading to not call a man in a dress she/her

I think it's hurtful and degrading, to 51% of the planet, to call a man in a dress She/Her

Who is right?

Neither of us. You have the right to use whatever pronouns you like. you have NO RIGHT to compel me to do the same.

Answer the other points I made you coward.