New Lucy Letby details

[Mrsdoyler]

Did you see today in the news that LucyLetby originally failed her nursing training.

Reason: Lack of empathy

“Fortunately, this nurse was particularly experienced and therefore she challenged it, and, as it happens, it was the registrar that had changed the vent settings just hadn’t documented it.”

You would imagine mistakes happen, misunderstandings happen, blame is apportioned wrongly etc. relatively frequently in such a setting. One incident doesn't implicate an entire team for all time.

And besides, LL was unlikely to have any problem with her registrar whatsoever ...given their texting sessions, day trips together, her mate joking with her about "going commando" around him etc. etc.

Apparently the only time she cried during the trial - with all those incredibly harrowing circumstances - was when talking about her cats, and when hearing his voice giving evidence.

(Which he did behind a screen).

Interesting to read her messages with doctors - not sure of it was just him - with her having a pity party and then being reassuring and supportive etc.
She was also incredibly student and combative when the consultants started raising concerns about her - writing strident letters to them about how she would be back on the ward, taking part in meetings where they were forced to apologise to her and discuss issues etc etc.

A nurse who was close to and had the ear of at least one doctor ....... and was certainly not shy, bashful, intimidated etc when dealing with lead consultants.
Hard to buy in to the victim narrative.

*incredibly strident and combative

She certainly sacked him off now & has new legal represention.

"....Doctor U and Letby had exchanged 1,355 Facebook messages over the course of the three months they'd worked together between June 2016 and September 2016.

Doctor U would later go on to support Letby's grievance case against her removal from the neonatal unit to non-patient duties in July."

Not exactly a case of lying, blaming doctors versus victim nurses, eh?

I'm sure he's devastated.

Apparently the only time she cried during the trial - with all those incredibly harrowing circumstances - was when talking about her cats, and when hearing his voice giving evidence.

False

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/may/05/lucy-letby-stunned-by-death-of-baby-she-is-accused-of-murdering?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Aw, my bad.

In any case, her excessive communication with her registrar (and let's face it; her interaction with him would be termed, at the very least, an emotional affair on here), his reassurance of her, his backing of her ....

and her strident behaviour towards the consultants who were raising concerns about her ...and the fact that the hospital management actually backed her against them for quite some time; with them being disregarded, dismissed, pressured to write apology letters, pressured to attend conciliatory meetings with her, threatened with the GMC etc. etc......

Is all TRUE.

None of that remotely fits with your narrative of high handed, unquestioned, arrogant doctors ..and vulnerable, victim nurses.

Not in a million years.

This Dr has been interviewed by the enquiry and has said he has virtually tortured himself ever since and he apparently felt manipulated by her

easy for him to say now though

They weren’t raising legitimate concerns about her. They were accusing her of murder without evidence. They only went to the police because she stood up to them. Until the triplets died they never claimed any of the deaths were suspicious because they weren’t.
They didn’t go to the police until a year later. There is just no interpretation of events in which the consultants were not contemptible.

Tbh it sounded like he had an affair or something approaching it with her.

His interactions with her may have contributed to her behaviour.

However I suppose even a wandering dick guy can't be blamed for his bit on the side murdering anyone, that's ultimately on her.

I think I also read that the unexpected deaths and collapses starred before he was there

And there is the ongoing investigation into all her previous placements. So it could have been long before.

i don’t think her fighting to get her job back is proof of anything. If I was falsely accused of something I would do the same.

the triplets, despite being 33 weeks were not healthy. The argument that they would have been there anything with the downgrade is untrue. It’s not just the age of the baby but their care needs. Many of the babies had higher care needs.

one consistent argument is that the jury was convinced so she must be guilty. However, a majority verdict was accepted so not everyone in the jury was convinced. I’m was surprised to learn you can accept majority verdicts. Surely you need everyone to be sure.

im not convinced that any of the babies were murdered. If you accept that yes the babies were murdered then sure it probably was her. But I’ve not seen any compelling evidence that any of the babies were murdered. Dewi Evans didn’t see any of the babies. The person who saw the babies and did the autopsy who was far more qualified than Dewi Evans didn’t see any sign of murder either.

They weren’t raising legitimate concerns about her

They absolutely were.

They were accusing her of murder without evidence.

Nope, they never accused her or murder.

The police and the CPS did that after the the year long investigation.

without evidence

She was associated with collapses and deaths. Other staff, nursing staff associated her with them. One was quoted as saying "when the alarms went off, we would turn to each other and say "Lucy's on, using she?"

They didn't need evidence to express concerns about how collapses and deaths seemed to follow her.

Until the triplets died they never claimed any of the deaths were suspicious because they weren’t.

Wrong!

They didn’t go to the police until a year later

The management didn't go to the police til a year later.

Noone - neither consultants nor management knee for certain that deliberate harm was a cause. It's hardly an automatic assumption, even with cases like Beverly Alllit.

It was referred to the police to establish whether deliberate harm was the cause ..... Which the lead investigating officer said was only one of the possibility they investigated. They concluded it was the correct one, after a year of investigating.

It's a puzzle that we'll never know the answer to.

This is just one theory, i dont know the answer:

It's possible that the consultants were bullies, and that they wanted nurses to take the blame.

I saw one of the consultants give an interview. He said that he demanded that Lucy Letby be taken off the ward.

His senior manager? a female, told him no she wouldn't just take lucy letby off the ward, as they had to follow policy nd procedures.

He said "are you going to go against what three senior Paediatrics are saying to do"

And she said yes she was going to go against their advice and there was no concrete evidence at that stage

So the consultant was a pushy person. Maybe because he genuinely saw danger for the children. Or maybe because he liked to put the blame somewhere?

There is just no interpretation of events in which the consultants were not contemptible.

I've read reasonably extensively on this case and I do not find the consultants contemptible.

Not remotely.

I find it harrowing seeing how they were treated by management.

You sound like you know nothing about this case.You sound like you'be gone down the nonsense conspiracy theory route.

So the consultant was a pushy person

Do you know why he was "pushy" at that point?

Any guesses?

You are absolutely being unreasonable for saying she must be guilty for showing a lack of empathy. Many people have communication differences or a bit odd, that doesn't mean they are all murderers. Look at Christopher Jefferies, who was hounded by the press for looking a bit mad professor, so must have been in the study with the lead piping. It distracted from finding the real killer and almost destroyed him.

I do actually believe Lucy Letby is guilty from the evidence that we have heard from the trial. But that is proper evidence in court, not just that she behaved differently to expectations so must be guilty. That way lies witch trials.

I think I'm out because we're back to threads dominated by posters who appear to know next to nothing about this case, and clearly can't be arsed reading to any extent about it, but like to speculate and give their opinions.

Along with the conspiracy theorists who spout ridiculous, ignorant, puerile narratives ...it's just pointless.

This is the tenth or eleventh thread like this.

And she said yes she was going to go against their advice and there was no concrete evidence at that stage

Nope.she said she would take responsibility if there was another unexpected and unexplained death.

She didn't, incidentally. She got the fuck out, and has paid zero price for her decision and "responsibility" so far.

And I have no idea whatsoever where you got the "no concrete evidence" thing from. That was not in anything I have heard or read re their interaction.

Of course I understand why he was pushy.

My point was that in a hospital, a consultant can't just remove a nurse from a ward, because he said so.

He can report a nurse. It then has to go through investigation and proper policy and procedures.

They have to follow staff procedures.

He seemed to think he had the power to get her moved off immediately on his say so

I'm not sure if she did it or not.

It's interesting to look at all sides of the case.

You are right Hazel - many on here just go on a little snippet and assume the whole case is flawed

And to the poster who said those triplets were ill - no they were not - go and do your research - at trial it was said they were absolutely fine and had a 99pc chance of survival the same as all babies born of normal gestation

Im also out!

Another thing I’ve noticed is since the reporting restrictions there has been many experts speaking out questioning the medical evidence. I’ve yet to see a single expert speaking out in support of the Dewi Evans and his medical evidence. As I understand, the other expert who reviewed Dewi Evans report died before the trial.

for those who say the consultants were honourable and downtrodden by management. Dr Jayram claimed he saw Lucy letby harming baby K. He then did nothing. He helped resuscitate baby K and then left Lucy alone with the baby again. If it is true he walked in on a nurse actively harming a baby, he should have called the police then and there. Or at the very least emailed the managers then and there. ‘I just walked in and caught Lucy letby harming a baby.’ He didn’t do this. So I question if he actually saw anything.