To be disappointed & offended by this

[HazelPlayer]

Myself and a woman I met while working abroad (in her country( have kept an acquaintance going for 20 plus years now.

She moved to Germany for work a few years ago and has since got into a serious relationship with a German guy and shares his flat. She was mostly single before this relationship.

Both she and I have made the effort over the years to meet up once every few years.

Since she got into the relationship, they. visited my home country once. I could not accommodate them, due to renovations, but acted as their taxi driver for their stay, got them free National.Trust entry to a major attraction, and my h paid for meals out etc.
I think it was also the first time this woman met my dd, who was perhaps 5 at the time. She was very interested in her and affectionate towards her; and my DD reciprocated.

I then visited them with my DD in Germany, DD was 5/6 at the time, we stayed in their spare room. My dd's behaviour was no better or worse, I think, than any 5/6 year old child.
My acquaintance appeared to enjoy spending time with my DD, lots of videoing her. Her partner commented he "didn't know who was enjoying this the most" when they were playing in playparks etc.

My dd found their flat layout confusing/disorienting and when she had a sudden, urgent need to use the toilet - which she didn't tell me about because she was too embarrassed in front of this lady and her partner at the dining table - she couldn't find the toilet fast enough and soiled herself a bit. She then panicked and threw the soiled leggings and knickers into a corner of the spare room, nicely getting a couple of poo marks on the wall/bed frame.
I only discovered this when I wondered what she was doing and went looking for her, my long-term acquaintance was right on my heels so I had no chance to clean it up before she knew/got involved and she immediately had the sanitising wipes etc out. She seemed relatively matter of fact about it.

This happened a few hours before we left, I was extremely embarrassed but we didn't have much chance to talk about it.

After the visit, among various bits of convo, she mentioned that her partner has confirmed that he was glad they didn't have kids and wouldn't be having them. I found this slightly undiplomatic (which she can often be) but thought "ok, to each their own" and "I'd like to see him around an actual badly behaved kid". Also I spent an entire day of a three day stay entertaining myself and DD and navigating the city's transport system to go to a pool complex on my own, and didn't insist on doing a day out that they suggested for my DD because I thought of would be too tiring and demanding for everyone. I also bought food and gifts. So we weren't exactly demanding/crappy guests.

During that visit my acquaintance suggested we visit during the next summer (the summer just past) because it was the best time of kids. I didn't arrange it did various reasons, she was very much awol/unresponsive on communications so I thought I'd perhaps offended her by not visiting again. I therefore suggested that maybe we could visit in December, if that suited them.

She has now said that we could not stay with them because she "promised her partner she would not have kids to stay in the flat again".

This sort of rules out visiting her again in her (now) home base. Due to expense. Or I could shoulder the expense, but it makes me feel resentful about spending loads of money to visit someone who can't tolerate a child - and children grow up and change a lot (!!!) - for a night or two.
.
The flights there are not cheap, there's no flight from our local airports so we have to travel over 3 hours to a major one (during that visit we had the expense of airport hotels because of flight times) too. It would be heading for £1000 to Kay for flights and accommodation even without airport hotels ... . and this is to visit someone who takes the above line towards kids.
I could visit on my own sometime but tbh I'd just be thinking "I'm here on my own because you're too intolerant to host a not bad kid for a night or two". And my acquaintance was so interested in my DD that my DD would be wondering why she wasn't invited etc.

I don't think this is just him because she has quite a strong character. I don't think she'd be dictated to.

Aibu to feel a bit sad that a decades long acquaintance has come to this?

He didn't say he's not keen on kids though. You can like children but still not enjoy the disruption they bring. I love dogs, but I don't want one. Not wanting one doesn't mean I don't like them. You see the difference?

You know yourself that everything revolves around children when they are young. Look at what happened with the OP. She went there to visit her friend for three days but spent one of those days roaming around the city to entertain the child. And the time the group did spend together was spent in playparks because again they had to entertain the child. Then, on top of that, back in the apartment, everyone would be catering to the child's needs (converstations, food, bedtime, noise levels etc). That's not fun for adults! Nor is it a good way to catch up with an old friend.

The whole thing is not an experience these childfree people want to repeat. They're happy to see the OP and child again, they just don't want the disruption of having the whole stay dictated to by the needs of a child. If the child has to go, it would be better to arrange to meet at the playpark and/or have something to eat together, then everyone can go back to their own accommodations and do their own thing in peace. Alternatively, don't take the child and do adult things.

It really doesn't.
I love and appreciate being a mum.
But there's more to me than that.
You're good now.... hope you feel the same when your kids are doing their thing and you're left with ...time on your hands.

We are new empty nesters. Two of the mums we know really gave up their own identity when they had kids. Now the menopause has hit and they are full of regret. They are bright women who lost their way and put everything into their children. Whilst their husbands’ careers and hobbies flourished. I hope things improve for them though.

Right. And we are all different and all entitled to an opinion. And yeah there is nothing wrong with not being into hanging out with kids. I never said there’s anything wrong with it. I expect he’s a nice guy. I expect the op’s friend is a wonderful lady. I was simply giving my own perspective and that is if I were in the same situation as op, I would cool off the friendship because the new partner doesn’t seem to be keen on kids. And my kids are a huge part of my life.
but that’s just me. I realise not everyone will be on my wavelength. I also wanted op to know that I can see why she was getting defensive about a lot of comments on here. Because some of them really are awful. I tend to empathise with the op because posting on Mumsnet can be pretty terrifying! And unhelpful or nasty comments can really affect someone.

Exactly... its possible to enjoy being a mum without it taking over your entire personality and sacrificing your life to it.
Major mistake.

I think the ball is in the OP's court now. She says her friend (plus partner?) has a standing invitation to come and stay with her now, so presumably the renovations have all been completed.
if the standing invitation was made some time ago she could reiterate it to her friend, framing it as her turn to invite them and how nice it would be to have them visit her. She says they have 'done' her area/city on previous visits but she could probably find new things for them to do if it's been a few years since they last came to hers.
If OP wants the acquaintanceship to get back to a closer or friendlier footing I would extend a warm and genuine invitation to visit her on the above lines.
A big if, I think, reading between the lines. I may be wrong.

All of you have misinterpreted what I meant when I said that being a mum is the best identity I have had. I don’t mean that I have no life. Geeeeeez Mumsnet!!!! You cannot say anything without it being a huge deal.

🙄🙄🙄

Really? I have no children, but it wouldn’t cross my mind to ban them from my home! If a couple of friends with a small child visit from abroad, I’d be just as happy if they brought DC. Not so much if they had several demanding kids, but even that would be ok for just a daytime visit.

Haven't seen anyone else mention this but surely very soon (if not already) your child won't want to go back there because they feel so embarrassed? So it doesn't really matter whether they don't want you back anyways.

I'm NOT getting into whether it was normal / disgusting whatever. We've all had a mishap of some sorts like this when we were younger or older that we cringe at.

I'm just saying it sounds like a pretty mortifying incident for the child (and one which the adults around them haven't just laughed off) and I imagine they will feel more and more embarrassed about it as they grow older.

I would expect once your child gets to 7 / 8 / 9 they will have no desire to go back to the place and the people where they had their most embarrassing moment and stay there for the week.

But then again you aren't too embarrassed to go back and I guess they could take after you...

It sounds pretty reasonable of her to accommodate her partner's wishes. He's not comfortable with having children in his home. She's made her choice to go along with is wishes - which is entirely her right.

What stops you from visiting on her own or doing a city break somewhere else in Europe?

This.

There are so many things that are going to be ruled out with a young child in tow. Going out for an evening meal, going to a bar, going to a concert or gallery or museum (unless there’s child focused element), going on a hike, going for a spa/sauna (v popular in Germany but adults only). I would find it rather tiresome. You can split up and do separate activities but that rather undermines the catching up element of the weekend.

Also, Northern Europeans can be very direct and clear about their boundaries so I wouldn’t take it personally.

Again, there is no evidence that he is not keen on kids. Not wanting your home disrupted by one doesn't mean you don't like them. I'd actually be more worried if a childless man was enthusiastically eager to have a young child stay with him.

You can empathise with the OP without encouraging her to step away from her friend. You could do what many other people are doing by trying to help her understand that this doesn't mean they don't like her child and doesn't have to mean the end of the friendship. You are doing the very typical, and unhelpful, MN thing of encouraging someone to go full scorched earth over something minor that could be easily sorted.

Im not sure if any other kids have visited.

She may have just said "kids" to try to be more diplomatic.

There are tonnes of helpful posts, I appreciate people taking their time to post.

“Hi x, thanks for the invite. I totally understand that having kids staying can be a lot when you’re not used to it. Unfortunately, I’m not able to stretch my budget to factor in accommodation. I might if I come on my own? Or you’re more than welcome to come to us. Let me know what you think.”

I really don’t see what all the fuss is about. Her partner is perfectly entitled to not want children staying in his flat if he finds it stressful (it can be!).

With regards to the change in contact; surely that’s just life? I go months without seeing friends who live 20 minutes away but it doesn’t make our relationships any less meaningful. You’ve said that it’s her first serious relationship so let her enjoy this new stage in her life.

She obviously still wants to continue the friendship otherwise she wouldn’t have invited you at all. The fact that you’ve “demoted” her to acquaintance because of this perceived slight is rather dramatic.

@Cappuccinowithonesugarplease 🙄 right back at you!

I think they sound like a typical couple that doesn't have children. They think they're going to be fun aunty/uncle types, they get really into it then faint at the slightest challenge. That's just who they are. They thought it was going to be cool having a young child in the house because they could show how down with it they were but it turned out they were actually intolerant.

They won't change so you probably won't be wanting to have much to do with them. But you tried - and hopefully you all had some good times in there.

When you have young children, it's just way easier to stay in the company of people who understand because they do throw us under the bus with monotonous regularity.

We actually went out for an evening meal. My dd played on her tablet, which she can do for hours, if allowed (!)
The meal went fine.

This lady I know doesn't drink alcohol.

I don't think her partner drinks much (or possibly at all) either. I don't think I've seen him drinking.

We went to a pool/sauna/spa complex on the day they were working (ourselves). It could have accommodated adults and kids - together or splitting up for activities and then reuniting.

They are mostly outdoorsy, walking types. This doesn't meld too badly with kid stuff, just that there's a limit to how far kids will walk. I had dds scooter to counteract that.

As a related aside, I think posters have missed in the op that I suggested Nov/Dec because the two times of year this lady suggested we visit were summer - when the main city park splash pool is filled and the weather is good ....and just before Christmas, when the winter markets and associated funfairs are on.
Having missed the summer, that's why I suggested Nov/Dec.

I thought the radio silence was offence at me not contacting her to arrange a summer visit, that's why I suggested a Nov/Dec visit ....ironically it seems the radio silence was the opposite.

Well don't get hung up on whether it was diplomatic or not - just put your mind to rest and believe he's just not that into kids staying, the way some people don't like dogs staying. Life changes, people's circumstances change so maybe you can just consider how you could have a different sort of visit with your friend and a nice time without your child?

Like other people (I imagine) I've friends who I just know it would be better to visit alone, and others who I would visit with kids. I really think it best to move on past this and put it down to just one of those things which has changed a bit due to your friend's new circumstances.

Ugh - what's with the negativity towards childfree people? How intolerant of you.

Years of exposure to them. Sorry if the truth hurts!

She went there to visit her friend for three days but spent one of those days roaming around the city to entertain the child. And the time the group did spend together was spent in playparks because again they had to entertain the child. Then, on top of that, back in the apartment, everyone would be catering to the child's needs (converstations, food, bedtime, noise levels etc). That's not fun for adults! Nor is it a good way to catch up with an old friend.

It's difficult to relate this because I think people presume you're blinkered or misinterpreting something, but when this lady met my child for the first time here, she almost totally absorbed herself in her, playing with her, cuddling her etc etc

I didn't really get a look in.Not that I minded.
I was only offended when my DD suggested she live with her instead of us lol.

She then suggested we - very much we - visited them. She specified the best times for kids and what my DD would enjoy and where we would visit. When there, she was constantly videoing her and taking photos of her.

It was not a case of me taking my child along when she would have preferred me alone; it was almost the opposite. That I felt she'd have been disappointed if I had arranged a visit on my own.

Indeed and at NO POINT did the friend or partner say it was anything to do with poo incident. He just said he didn't want kids in the home. Fair enough. His home his choice to set that boundary and the friend had decided that is a boundary she wants to abide by.
The end. No further drama or speculation required !

This. That's absolutely vile and she got poo on the wall/ door/