To think most men are selfish?

[henrts]

Even when they think they’re not, they are still massively selfish compared with a woman. Not all men, obviously, but I think it’s true of most. I also think it shows mostly when they have kids… somehow they still manage to put themselves first.

Not in my world.

It is true in my experience.

Yanbu

@MintyNew you don’t think so in general then?

Totally agree sadly.

My experience is that while there are many selfish women, and many unselfish men, men on the whole are at ease with centering their own needs, and being oblivious to others', in a way that few women are. Even the good men will do little things like finish the biscuits without it occurring to them to share them out. That's just the first thing that popped into my head.

Very much so. My husband thinks he’s the perfect man but he’s a selfish uncommunicative bastard. I’m currently weighing up my options

I see where you're coming from but I have 2 brothers and a husband who are not selfish at all and always put their children first. So I always find it hard to say that men are selfish. But I have to admit that one of my brothers was absolutely awful and definitely selfish when he was in his 20s and I have had plenty of bad experiences with colleagues and generally just people that make me have to agree with you.

I think it is very different for men not having the experience of pregnancy. That has to make a difference.

I can't understand otherwise why so many can cast off their children so easily.

Not in my experience. Men in my family have always been selfless and caring. My partner can be selfish with me at times (as I can be with him as well) but if he is on his death bed, he will get up if his daughter needs him. He was literally limping up and down the stairs on a broken leg all night when she had a tummy bug and wanted him to hold her hand every time she needed to throw up.

You are not wrong OP, you just have to see how many men walk away from their kids, and even more who resent funding them, and don’t want 50/50 parenting etc.

Most people, men and women, put their own self interest first most of the time. It shouldn't be a surprise. Social media highlights the extremes at both ends.

Agree sadly.

I also agree , sadly.

In my experience, the vast majority of the ones I've known, yes.

I'd go further. I think a good percentage of men put their dicks and shagging before just about everything else.

Agree with this also

It’s much easier for men to be selfish, simply because they aren’t physically responsible for babies (mostly) and because of male socialisation and patriarchal expectations. So, they are more likely to be so.

Usually yes. There are some men who are very considerate and thoughtful but most men are better at putting their needs first.

Honestly I don’t think that’s always a bad thing (although it needs to be challenged if it’s at someone else’s expense). Far too many women put their own needs right at the bottom of the pile and allow themselves to be walked on. At work, in the home, in society in general.

It would be nice to think men could meet us in the middle but they won’t. To the privileged, equallity feels like oppression etc. we have to take it from them rather than expect it to be given. That doesn’t mean behaving like an arsehole but it does mean learning that your needs matter.

I haven't experienced this with my dh personally we've together 8 years and never a issue he has always put me first we don't have children but if we did I have no doubt he wouldn't be the same man he is now

I can’t speak for the nation, but for my social circle absolutely not. The men I choose as my friends (and luckily the men in my family who I have not been able to choose!) are the most caring, selfless people when it come to their friends and family. I have been lucky with my family, but I have been careful to choose friends who have the same values as me - both men and women. Luckily who my friends have chosen to partner up with have also shared the same values!

My husband is way more selfless than me, would always get up for the newborn crying and nappies, despite him working full time. I appreciated that and reciprocated when he took his shared parental leave and I was working full time. He knows what full on childcare looks like (the joys and mind numbing boredom!), and we respect and appreciate each other and know how lucky we are to have a loving family unit.

He was like that when I met him, always did 50/50 house wise. Neither of us had to change our values, we had them at the start. That’s why we got married and chose to have children together.

Yes I do. The expectations of selflessness are so much lower for men, and there is less societal pressure to put others first or judgement when they don't. In fact actions seen as selfish in women are often framed as positives in men. I think all human beings would probably prefer to be more selfish if left to their own devices, but the societal expectations on women, many of which we've internalised keep us in line.

I read an excellent thread on twitter today by a woman whose parents have an age gap and her mum's life is limited by caring for her dad. Her dad won't necessarily accept care from anyone else which frustrates the daughter and she said to him that he doesn't know what it's like for her mum as a caregiver because he's never been a caregiver a day in his life. She wasn't being mean about it, or her dad, or his contribution as he sees it as a provider (though she pointed out her mum also worked) - so it was really about that obliviousness and how it impacts on women who are still the primary caregivers all throughout society, and the added impact of how men can often view receiving care from anyone else etc. It was a really interesting thread. I think once you've had it highlighted to you there's no excuse for persisting with the same behaviours.

Ultimately men can pick and put down women's needs, wants and rights whenever they feel like it. Theoretically so can women but the way our society is set up, it's very difficult to do.

My DH does more childcare and housework than me, and earns more - we both work full time but I'm definitely a bit more 'selfish' than him.

HOWEVER I think you're right because I have lots of female friends and every single one has done more than their DP since having kids. My set up of equal-to my DP doing more seems very very rare.

My parents also had a very unequal set up, which is partly why I picked a DP who was keen to do his share or even more.

I think OP might be right in general.

More thoughtless than actively selfish in my dh's case.
He was really taken aback today when the kids declined going away with just him at halfterm (I can't go due to work commitments), I've explained why, but he just doesn't get it. We're looking forward to a week just the three of us🎉!

The opposite in my experience. DH is a supportive, fully involved parent, a successful business owner with huge concern for his employees and a loving husband. He has also had to step up to support, financially and physically, his widowed mother as his DSis has issues of her own.
I see the same pattern amongst our friends.
This behaviour has sometimes been at the expense of financial gains and sacrificing free time for hobbies/self indulgence.
I believe that my DS has similar values to his father and my DD seems to have chosen a boyfriend with a similar outlook.
I can hardly believe some of the male behaviours described on here and in the media. Even my Father, a product of pre-WW2, who died when I was a teenager, was involved in caring for his DC and supporting my DM in obtaining her professional qualifications whilst bringing up their DC.
I never stop realising how fortunate I have been. Without males providing great role models to their DS's how can these young men know how to 'be'.