To expect men to bring condoms

[Dockofthebaobun]

Since my divorce I’ve occasionally had hook-ups with men I’ve got chatting to online. The first time, the guy didn’t have condoms on him so we used mine. I thought it was odd for someone to meet for a shag and not bring condoms, and I wondered if he had genuinely forgotten or was just trying to chance it and see if I would without (er, not on your life mate, sorry).
Since then I have had three more hookups, the latest being last night. And now three out of four have ‘forgotten’ condoms.

What is it with these guys? They are all in their late 30s / 40s, all professional well-spoken men, with jobs and responsibilities and things. Why would they be so thoughtless and/or reckless with their sexual health?

Incidentally the best date by far was the one guy who did bring his own. I don’t think that’s necessarily a coincidence!

AIBU to expect them to bring their own? I always bring some, but God why should it be my responsibility?

Haha cross posted! Thanks for clarifying.

I don’t ’offer’ sex. We agree to have sex. They don’t ’turn up to take up my offer’. We both arrive to have the sex we’ve agreed to have.

I clearly know a lot more about the causal encounter culture than you do and I know what most women tend to do in these situations. There are discussion forums online about it. And it turns out, I was right about op not meeting them in the room.

Hmm, I don’t read it like that. I think the point is that as women we are more vulnerable, and we have to manage risk more carefully because there are too many rapey, violent men.

It would be lovely if we didn’t have to consider that and could just enjoy our lives, but as you’ve alluded to yourself, it’s all about assessing and balancing risk.

We all have our own red lines. I can see you take steps to try and minimise the risk - hotel rooms rather than his house, video calls etc. But ultimately there is a level of risk involved - Ted Bundy seemed like a decent, kind man on first encounters apparently 😫

You get to decide how much risk is acceptable to you. If you ever get attacked (hopefully not!!!!) it’s not your “fault”, but you are knowingly engaging in behaviour that carries an element of risk. We all engage in behaviours every day that carry risk (I don’t just mean sexual) - we all decide what risk we want to accept. It still doesn’t mean it’s our fault if it goes wrong. For example, flying - most people are happy to fly because the risk of the plane crashing is low. But if the plane crashes it doesn’t mean they are to blame for getting on the plane - they were just unlucky. Some people are so risk-averse they won’t get on the plane in the first place. Thats what I mean about us all deciding what level of risk we will accept in every situation.

I don’t agree that all men who go to hookups are creepy freaks. But I do think that the vast majority really won’t care about your well-being. Why would they? You’re strangers with no plans for an ongoing connection. They don’t have to worry about pregnancy and probably think the risk of catching STIs from a woman is pretty small - and most STIs are curable anyway…. They assume if you’re bothered you’ll provide one for them to wear…. The whole meet is about fun and pleasure, it’s unlikely they’re thinking beyond that.

You ask about their risk - you accept an element of risk meeting them, perhaps they’re prepared to accept an element of risk going in bareback?

Also btw, no judgement from me. Four hookups in two years is hardly prolific. You’re doing the smart thing and taking your own condoms.

Interestingly, I would judge a potential partner far more for not being interested in condoms than I would a hookup. To my mind, a hookup owes me nothing but I’d expect more from someone where there’s potential for a relationship.

Kindly, OP, you're creating 'less risk' in your head to suit your behaviour. You're coming over as condescending as if you have some better 'vision' on the likelihood of attacks, yet the facts are very simple.

You're at risk having sex with an unknown man in a locked hotel room.
A man is always going to able to overpower you.

You can't 'assess' a man in the short time you talk to him before you have sex.
The man will be charm personified as he wants sex.
But once you're alone - who knows?

The comparison with the hotel catching fire is silly. More women end up being attacked by men than dying in a hotel fire or falling down the stairs.

Most are perfectly willing to take the risk though.

The odds are that a man she knows is more likely to hurt her than a random man.

OP has never denied that there’s a risk. But it is small.

I think they don’t bring condoms because d) they don’t want to use one. With all the planning you describe, if they knew they wouldn’t have sex without one, then there is no way they would turn up without one. They have assessed the risk to themselves and decided it is worth it.

So I agree with other posters that these men are not considering you, your health or any consequences for you or having unprotected sex. They don’t care about you. I am not judging you & think that if this is what you want to do, then that is your choice. But don’t fool yourself into thinking that there is any respect for you & take care who you choose to meet.

So what about the sex workers who are beaten up?

The point is, it's not a measurable risk. She's implying that a few phone calls and video chat tell her she's 'safe' which is clearly nonsense. She has no idea who these men are - married, single, disease-ridden, violent- whatever.

Well frankly if I’d had 400 hook ups in 2 years it wouldn’t say anything about my character either.

And I disagree when you say ‘it’s still our fault if it goes wrong’. Nope. If it goes wrong and I am attacked then it is entirely 100% the fault of the attacker.

YANBU, they expect sex with condoms.

I told my DDs to use condoms and when they went Uni they were shocked at the amount of men who tried to convince them not need condoms.

One guy told DD2 he would pull out and she said she wanted a baby, convinced him she desperately wanted a baby. The poor boy was so scared he couldn’t perform.

Good for you, although guessing you mean casual 😂

Yes it would because driving at 80mph is a crime just like attacking a woman is a crime. Criminals are to blame for crimes, not victims.

A more nuanced example would be walking across the motorway and dodging 70mph traffic. That would indeed be my fault. But that would be me taking a risk of breathtaking stupidity that no reasonable person would take and which no society would ever deem reasonable to take. It’s not comparable with one adult meeting another adult for consensual pre-arranged sex.

When I was still dating it's definitely my experience that older men do not want to wear a condom. Younger ones are fine!

Do you leave the hotel once you've hooked up? Or stay overnight? Just curious!

You're victim blaming. No one chooses to get attacked and it's entirely the fault of the attacker. The vast majority of rape is by someone the victim knows, usually a partner but it could be a friend or work colleague.

Haha, you're funny.

Ok- let's make it 70mph.

Look, it's clear you're a bit upset by the conversation and how it's gone.
You asked about condoms and now you're being asked about personal safety.
You're clearly in denial and just reiterating 'I've done risk assessment' blah balh.

Look at it another way. No idea how old you are but if you had a daughter maybe 20-25 and she told you she was having ONS with hook ups met online, in a hotel, would you be worried about her safety?

(I bet you say no just to stick to your own mindset on this!)

Or you'll say you've told her to do a risk assessment.

No one here is judging your need for sex, we're just other women who can accept and see the risky behaviour more than you can (because you want to have these hook ups.)

If you ever get attacked (hopefully not!!!!) it’s not your “fault”, but you are knowingly engaging in behaviour that carries an element of risk.

This by @SpidersAreShitheads says it very well.

Course I’d be worried. In the same way I worry when she goes on holiday or drives long motorway journeys.

Genuinely amazed that this attitude is prevalent amongst women (assuming you are women). Does wearing a short skirt or getting drunk whilst out count as risky behaviour which would mean I’m due some of the blame if raped? Or is it just hookups?

And I disagree when you say ‘it’s still our fault if it goes wrong’. Nope. If it goes wrong and I am attacked then it is entirely 100% the fault of the attacker.

True but would that be any consolation if you were attacked? Especially since most rapists get away with it.

Yes, it's the man's fault BUT there is a risk and to say there isn't , or you can make an assessment on next to nothing, is to live in a fantasy world.

Men's behaviour can turn on a sixpence if they become aggressive especially if they'd been drinking.

The rules of online dating are clear-

go to a public place
don't meet him alone where no one can see you
don't get in his car
don't meet at his house or yours
tell friends where you are and maybe arrange a call to see you're okay

The issue is you aren't happy to be challenged on what you're doing.

You do whatever you like.

Rapists are 100% responsible for raping. As a woman who has been raped, I absolutely put safeguards in place to minimise the chance of it happening again. Is that fair? No. Do I do it to stay safe? Yes.

We live in an unfair world. It shouldn't be like it but it is. Until men start feeling the consequences for being a rapist, women will continue to prioritise their safety.

Have you thought about the possibility the ones without condoms have girlfriends/partners/wives which is why they don’t have condoms because they have a main relationship and thus if they suddenly found condoms on him suspicion would obviously be huge.

Not your problem as such there but whatever website your meeting these men in who know they are getting sex first date but don’t bring one are not good honest men.

Because a good man would want to make sure his protected because not to be mean but you could be carrying anything or trying for a free sperm donor for all he knows.

At least out of four one was decent