Cheshire Police are an incompetent bunch of useless bastards

[GossIsAGit]

After Sally Clark

They should have remembered that If a doctor of medicine tells you that a coincidence is so unlikely it must mean a woman has been killing babies then maybe you should consult a statistician and actually listen.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/10/lucy-letby-police-cps-handling-case-raises-new-concerns-about-convictions?CMP=ShareiOSAppOther

It honestly wouldn't surprise me if the Countess of Chester have thrown Letby well and truly under the bus to cover up their own negligence. A retrial is almost certainly in the public interest. I'm sorry for all the parents, truly I am but the fact remains that everybody in the UK must have a fair trial. We cannot let emotions get in the way.

Of course she could! She didn't say that in court though did she?

He also participated in a BBC radio 4 programme called Lucy Letby: The Killer Questions. I could hardly believe that babies born under 30 weeks were only being seen by a Consultant twice a week.

The neonatologist from Addenbrooks is also convinced that one of the babies who was allegedly murdered by air being injected into feeding tube actually died from bowel obstruction. The X ray showing air in the stomach was taken the day before the baby collapsed. Lucy Letby had been off duty since the baby's admission and but was back on duty the day the baby collapsed and a day AFTER the X ray showing air in the stomach was taken.

I don't know if she played a part in the deaths of any babies but the evidence which convicted her was weak and there was lots of evidence which might have helped her case which was never heard in court. I hope there will be a retrial or she wins the right to appeal.

She did. She said a nightie and tracksuit bottoms and the prosecution behaved as though she were claiming to have been dragged out of the house in just a nightie.

It appears that eleven hospitals had bigger spikes in 2015.
https://triedbystats.com

Correction: evidence from the trial confirmed the bung was off. It was just that I’d read it recently.

As a nurse I have seen many investigations that have concluded whilst, completing getting the outcome wrong and ignoring what actually happened. Whatever anyone says hospitals like to have one person to blame. I know someone who lost their job based only on circumstantial evidence as, he was on duty at the time, no one witnessed him doing what he was accused of, the police were not involved and sadly he didn't have union membership.

I don't know what I think about LL It does seem like an unsafe verdict, and, I have seen similar things happen.
It doesn't matter what you say or how much you try to whistle blow no one wants to know.

People need to realise that memory isn't a recording, it's a reconstruction and can change over time without anyone lying.

I was involved in an NHS investigation a few years ago that resulted in a medic going to prison and being struck off (no suggestion that he wasn't guilty, he was). At the time, I and numerous other colleagues were interviewed by the trust with a stenographer present and then sent our transcripts a few months after interview.

I came across mine a few weeks ago and there was SO much that i'd forgotten and a lot that I remembered differently now. Trauma does that. If i'd been interviewed now, a few years after the event, my interview would have been different but with no lying on my part, just the passing of time.

It's one reason why the ideal is for cases to come to trial promptly, because memories fade and can change.

She has had two separate trial and was found guilty by two separate juries in both.
Shall we just keep going until a jury returns an innocent verdict?

Should all convicted murderers especially those who- unlike Letby-have had only one trial be offered the same chance?

Should we make it best of five?

Should all convicted murderers especially those who- unlike Letby-have had only one trial be offered the same chance?

If there is evidence that the conviction is unsafe then yes. Of course they should. It’s called justice.

If the second trial involves the jury being encouraged to take the verdict of the previous trial into account, as it was in this case, it is in no way an independent opportunity for justice.

I think you will find that many convicted criminal feels their conviction is unsafe.
"it's not me guv" is a cry often heard in gaols-to the extent that it can sometimes feel as if the whole prison estate contains more innocent people than a nunnery!

I think we have to accept that two juries found Letby guilty and, not only that, a panel of judges decided that she had no grounds for appeal.

She has has a a pretty big bite of the judicial cherry. She is guilty but, in just the same way, that every death row inmate in America has a merry band of people yelling that they are innocent, so too has this convicted serial baby murderer gathered her own gang of misguided groupies.

She has been through the legal system-twice- she has been refused leave to appeal and yet that is still not good enough for a bunch of armchair judicial experts.

She will rot in jail and despite a minority of very loud voices, that is exactly what should happen.

In a year or two, the circus will have moved on. It is distasteful and the sooner they do, the better.

It's not armchair judicial experts though is it?

It's a large group of highly skilled and experienced Drs world-wide including neonatologists, perinatal pathologists, statisticians and scientists who aren't saying 'she's innocent, let her out' but are saying the evidence that helped to convict her is potentially inaccurate and unsafe and have publicly expressed their concerns in the media and with sending their concerns to the public enquiry.

What's more bizarre to me is that there are members of the public who assume all of these highly skilled and experienced experts are talking out of their arse because they can't accept her guilt because she's a white woman or some other shit they've projected onto this case.

I thought most criminals just have to see a prison cell and they immediately confess all to anyone who will listen - even if that has to be to someone in the next cell via the pipework.
I don’t know whether Lucy Letby will get out, but the campaign will not go away. Justice is too important.

And then there's her notes.....written by her, found in her room.....

Nobody who says ‘I don’t deserve Mum and Dad’ at a moment of massive stress can possibly be a murderer.

Do you know many murderers then?

Thanks for the replies re if other hospitals experienced such a rise in deaths, really interesting

Just wanted to chip in to say I've written notes before whilst in counselling that would, if read by anyone, would have implied I was guilty of something that I wasn't. Had an ex that accused me of cheating and we split up. I hadn't cheated, but he and his family made me feel like I was an awful person and convinced me that I had indeed done something wrong. I haven't read them since, but my diary entries from the time will likely say lots of things like "I'm an awful person, I don't deserve a boyfriend" etc etc. So the notes from LL were neither here nor there for me; because I used to write lots when I was going through tough times.

Yep.

Depends what you decide to pay attention to though doesn't it?

There were lots of things on notes. Some could be seen as damning but others said 'I haven't done anything wrong' 'slander' 'panic' 'fear' 'lost' 'I can't focus everyday for overwhelming fear/panic kill myself now' . And lots made no sense whatsoever to observers.

And how that was presented by the prosecution as some sort of confession. a confession she has never made to Police, the courts, her family or friends.

Which latterly, I think has been explained by her as her mental state at the time when she was being accused of horrendous crimes and potentially a stream of conciousness.

By what the prosecution alleged was a cold, calculated serial killer who was so brilliant at killing babies in such a clever way that it wasn't suspected for years and post mortems said the babies died of natural causes but she was also slightly thick and writing confessional notes on post-its or in diaries that she kept at home for the Police to find when she was already under suspicion.

That could be true or it could be not. But you can't cherry pick bits you think are important and ignore the others..

Justice is important and she has had it. So, thankfully have her murder victims.

Even Cheshire Police couldn’t come up with anything in her background that said ‘serial killer’.

Not if she’s innocent, which she is.

She's not innocent tho is she? She's banged up for a reason

Not for any good reason, painful though that is to contemplate.

The idea that these notes constitute a confession rather than what they obviously are, the brain dump of someone who has been accused of serious crimes and is struggling to process it emotionally, is one of the most patently absurd claims in all the farrago of nonsense that constitutes the so called evidence in this case. Anyone who still believes the prosecution’s story on Lucy Letby’s notes has either not looked at them properly or has temporarily completely switched off their critical faculties.